Anyone changed their hydraulic cylinders on their grappler for more grab.

[4570Man]

Ut the one that insist pressure is not pressure and that a larger diameter cylinder reduces pressure. So by that you are saying a bigger cylinder produces less force.

And yet you insist I am an idiot! While exhibiting your foolishness! Why? Because you missed you have been feed the rope and hung yourself!
You fell hard!

And I’m not suggesting a bigger cylinder produces less force. I’m suggesting exactly the opposite. If it takes your loader 2500 psi to lift a ton with the current cylinders and you changed the cylinders to bigger cylinders how much pressure would it take to lift the same ton load? Certainly not the same 2500 psi. Since the bigger cylinders are stronger they require less pressure to do the same work. I never called you an idiot but it’s starting to look that way.

 

[b7610hsd]

Just look at Log splitters, most have same pump pressure, only the cylinder size is increased to increase the Tonnage capacity. it is all about the surface area ot the piston in the cylinder. For example, for 2,000 psi of hydraulic pressure, calculate the surface area of the bore diameter, which is 3.14 X R2. If you use a 3-inch bore cylinder, calculate the radius (1.5 x 1.5 x 3.14), which equals 7.065 square inches of surface area. Then multiply this number by the 2,000 hydraulic psi being used = 14,130 psi force on the rod end. So if you do change to larger Cylinders make sure the Material and Design of your grapple can handle more PSI.

 

[Smokeydog]

Messicks’s grapple feedback pressure from misuse video is good information. I’m guilty of grapple abuse. While the hydraulic systems are protected by relief valves from the hydraulic pump pressure, They aren’t protected with closed valves and external forces on the cylinders...I think, not positive for all. Likewise for backhoes, top and tilt, snowplows or other equipment unless an additional relief or cushion valve is installed. Backhoes are powerful diggers but chain a log to the bucket and take off down the trail the cylinders become pumps and the shock load can damage your system because it is not designed to see forces, “pressure” externally applied. There are grapples and equipment designed that can take the shock load if you want to play with the big dogs.

I’m sure tractor dealers love to sell grapples for their guaranteed income stream.

 

[CoyPatton]

And I’m not suggesting a bigger cylinder produces less force. I’m suggesting exactly the opposite. If it takes your loader 2500 psi to lift a ton with the current cylinders and you changed the cylinders to bigger cylinders how much pressure would it take to lift the same ton load? Certainly not the same 2500 psi. Since the bigger cylinders are stronger they require less pressure to do the same work. I never called you an idiot but it’s starting to look that way.

But the discussion is back pressure applied by a load back on the system. Not the force applied by the system. While volume of fluid is greater once the system is in a contained status and back pressure is applied, the back pressure has the same effect regardless of the size of cylinders. Fir back pressure to occur in a pressurized system, it must be greater than the pressure of the system. At that point, something gives somewhere. But the over pressure to the system - back pressure - from the same load is the same amount of pressure. What breaks may or may not change due to the larger cylinder, but cylinder size dies not change pressure levels only fluid volume. It may take longer to build up that pressure because of greater volume, but once a pressurized system receives back pressure of a set PSI it is that PSI regardless of volume.

 

[4570Man]

But the discussion is back pressure applied by a load back on the system. Not the force applied by the system. While volume of fluid is greater once the system is in a contained status and back pressure is applied, the back pressure has the same effect regardless of the size of cylinders. Fir back pressure to occur in a pressurized system, it must be greater than the pressure of the system. At that point, something gives somewhere. But the over pressure to the system - back pressure - from the same load is the same amount of pressure. What breaks may or may not change due to the larger cylinder, but cylinder size dies not change pressure levels only fluid volume. It may take longer to build up that pressure because of greater volume, but once a pressurized system receives back pressure of a set PSI it is that PSI regardless of volume.

I’ve tried to explain it to you and I don’t think you’re even reading my post. The bigger cylinder would generate less back pressure with the same load applied. That’s easily proven fact. Please state a valid argument not your ramblings on anything otherwise. At this point I really doubt you understand why a bigger cylinder is stronger than a smaller cylinder other than it just is. When you’re pushing against the cylinder it has more area to spread the load and the pressure would be less. Under your logic a tracked machine of equal weight would exert an equal amount of ground pressure as a wheeled machine. Or why would someone bother with snow shoes if more area wouldn’t exert less pressure?

 

[CoyPatton]

I’ve tried to explain it to you and I don’t think you’re even reading my post. The bigger cylinder would generate less back pressure with the same load applied. That’s easily proven fact. Please state a valid argument not your ramblings on anything otherwise. At this point I really doubt you understand why a bigger cylinder is stronger than a smaller cylinder other than it just is. When you’re pushing against the cylinder it has more area to spread the load and the pressure would be less. Under your logic a tracked machine of equal weight would exert an equal amount of ground pressure as a wheeled machine. Or why would someone bother with snow shoes if more area wouldn’t exert less pressure?

But you miss the entire point of the Messick’s video and my point that this is a system under pressure! That under pressure is being exceeded thus the term BACK PRESSURE! At thus point the size of the cylinder only accounts for volume. The excess pressure is the same. Something will give! Now the larger cylinder reduces the likelihood of cylinder being that something.
Your problem in my opinion is you do not comprehend that a pressurized system is already under tension and it must go somewhere and there is no where if the cylinder for it to go unless the cylinder wall fails. That cylinder is pressurized and now over pressurized by the BACK PRESSURE.
I never said that a larger cylinder was nor capable of greater force only that once a pressurized system is over pressurized the size of the cylinder inly has the effect of volume of fluid but experienced the same overpressure status.
Think about it. Will the cylinder hold the load if it is not pressurized. You discount that existing pressure prior to the overload.

 

[4570Man]

More irrelevant ramblings. Like obviously it’s a sealed and pressured system but pressure can’t build unless it has something to push against. This is a very simple load applied over area calculation. More area with the same load is LESS pressure.

 

[CoyPatton]

More irrelevant ramblings. Like obviously it’s a sealed and pressured system but pressure can’t build unless it has something to push against. This is a very simple load applied over area calculation. More area with the same load is LESS pressure.

Again you miss the BACK PRESSURE! Or refuse to admitted it!
You have me leaning to the latter. Watch the video, pressure is present! And I do not agree with the that last sentence! 2000 psi spread over 300 sq ft as opposed to 2000 psi over 100 sq ft remains 2000 psi as both were a measure expressed on sq inch!

 

[CoyPatton]

So I now get the confusion, you folks do not understand that the measurement force discussed and referenced is psi = pounds per square inch. It matters not if the psi is applied to 10 square inches or 100 square inches. It is still measured and expressed in psi, just like the pressure gauge shows. That equalizes size. Difficult concept when you refuse to acknowledge the unit! PSI is a fairly standard measurement in pressure! And again size foes not change psi nor does volume!
Just wow!

 

[4570Man]

Again you miss the BACK PRESSURE! Or refuse to admitted it!
You have me leaning to the latter. Watch the video, pressure is present! And I do not agree with the that last sentence! 2000 psi spread over 300 sq ft as opposed to 2000 psi over 100 sq ft remains 2000 psi as both were a measure expressed on sq inch!

The cylinder is what is generating the back pressure. The same load applied to the bigger cylinder generates less back pressure. Do you actually understand what PSI means? If you apply 2000 pounds of weight over 1 inch that’s 2000 PSI. If you increase the area to 4 inches and keep the weight at 2000 pounds you can’t apply the 2000 psi anymore. Now it’s only 500 psi.