anyone have opinions on Branson Tractors?

[arlen4720]

Here is info on all the different manufacturing locations

 

[eagle628]

Also in general, the specifications section of an individual model page will have the manufacturing location noted under "miscellaneous."

 

[TSO]

Screw that, get a REAL American tractor ... a Massey Ferguson. I mean, what name sounds more American than Massey Ferguson? Of course, Massey (and Massey-Harris) were Canadian companies, and Ferguson was from the UK ... and even when they merged as Massey-Harris-Ferguson (and then MF) they were still Canadian. They were later acquired by AGCO, one of the worlds largest global farm/machinery companies, based out of Duluth, GA. And even though the Massey Compacts are made in Japan by Iseki, and even though the current 26xx series tractors are produced in Brazil, and even though the 46xx series tractors are also built in Japan by Iseki... all that matters is that SOME of the MF tractors are built in the US by AGCO, and of course it has an American HQ ... so MF must be American?!?!

Point is, it really doesn't matter anymore who/where something is built. Most people probably still think that blue tractors are American because blue means Ford. When I had my LS, quite a few people assumed it was a Ford (these are older folks that probably don't use the computer much). When I had my Kioti, one of my neighbors (old-timer) said "Oh, you got one of those Ku-Botee tractors.... I heard those Jap tractors were pretty good." LOL, funny... it was a S. Korean tractor by Daedong.

I wouldn't get hung up on final assembly locations either. Most of the LS tractors are "final assembled" (which basically means fluids & tires installed locally, since it saves on shipping-crate charges) in NC ... that doesn't make them an American brand. I would expect that many of the Deere parts that go into an "American assembled" JD tractor are either manufactured in a foreign JD plant, or by some other foreign or domestic 3rd party company.

 

[Mr Bitz]

Screw that, get a REAL American tractor ... a Massey Ferguson. I mean, what name sounds more American than Massey Ferguson? Of course, Massey (and Massey-Harris) were Canadian companies, and Ferguson was from the UK ... and even when they merged as Massey-Harris-Ferguson (and then MF) they were still Canadian. They were later acquired by AGCO, one of the worlds largest global farm/machinery companies, based out of Duluth, GA. And even though the Massey Compacts are made in Japan by Iseki, and even though the current 26xx series tractors are produced in Brazil, and even though the 46xx series tractors are also built in Japan by Iseki... all that matters is that SOME of the MF tractors are built in the US by AGCO, and of course it has an American HQ ... so MF must be American?!?!

Point is, it really doesn't matter anymore who/where something is built. Most people probably still think that blue tractors are American because blue means Ford. When I had my LS, quite a few people assumed it was a Ford (these are older folks that probably don't use the computer much). When I had my Kioti, one of my neighbors (old-timer) said "Oh, you got one of those Ku-Botee tractors.... I heard those Jap tractors were pretty good." LOL, funny... it was a S. Korean tractor by Daedong.

I wouldn't get hung up on final assembly locations either. Most of the LS tractors are "final assembled" (which basically means fluids & tires installed locally, since it saves on shipping-crate charges) in NC ... that doesn't make them an American brand. I would expect that many of the Deere parts that go into an "American assembled" JD tractor are either manufactured in a foreign JD plant, or by some other foreign or domestic 3rd party company.

Love it..

 

[GManBart]

I
Here is an interesting fact that I'm finding as I'm doing my research though. The tractors that are made to be sold under the JD, NH or Case name by these foreign manufacturers seem to have lighter duty chassis/frames and less lift capacity than the tractors these companies market under their own name. If seems that the US companies are focused on hobby farmers for their compacts. But others have realized that most people don't really need a 50-60hp tractor...but do need a tractor that can lift a fair deal.

That is the market I am in. I don't need a large HP tractor...but I do need relatively high lift capacity on many occasions. First new tractor was a Mahindra. Awesome tractor that served me well. I just bought 40 HP Branson. Lift capacity is equal to what most would describe as a utility tractor...not a compact.

You need to do some more/better research. The Case and NH machines that are made by LS have the same engine, frame, axles, etc regardless of whether they're blue with NH stickers, blue with LS stickers, or Red with Case stickers.

The versions with blue paint and LS stickers do have a more powerful loader than the Case or NH versions.

The other machines (compact tractors) made for CNH come from Shibaura, and you can't buy those directly, so it's an entirely different scenario.

Your Branson can lift 2,200lbs to 103.8" at the pins....not even close to what a Utility machine is normally capable of, and there are 40hp compact tractors that can lift a fair amount more. For example, Kioti's DK40SE or NX4510 can lift 2,761lbs to 108.3"....that's a big jump in capability to lift 561lbs more weight an extra 4". Short version...the Kioti loader is at least 25% more powerful, but it's still not a Utility tractor loader. Jump up to Kiot's RX series (Utility) and you add another 600lbs of lift (3,384lbs) but it will lift that an extra two feet higher. That's a major jump in capability...more than twice what your Branson can do to the same height.

Look at a Deere 5045E (smaller Utility machine) and the FEL capacity is 3,133lbs to 122"....again, a huge jump from 2,200lbs to 103.8"....well over a 50% increase.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your Branson, but it doesn't remotely compare to a Utility size tractor when you're talking about FEL use. The other thing is that there is more to it than just lift capacity...you have to be able to use it safely, and the Utility machines will have an advantage there as well.

 

[TSO]

The versions with blue paint and LS stickers do have a more powerful loader than the Case or NH versions.

I just discovered that at least Case is putting a stronger loader finally on their version of the LS XR4046 (the FarmAll 50c). They were putting the L350 on, same as the NH 250TL, which was only rated for 2000# @ pins to 103". Now they have the option of the L360 (NH 270TL) which is rated to 2,500# at 113".

FYI.

 

[GManBart]

I just discovered that at least Case is putting a stronger loader finally on their version of the LS XR4046 (the FarmAll 50c). They were putting the L350 on, same as the NH 250TL, which was only rated for 2000# @ pins to 103". Now they have the option of the L360 (NH 270TL) which is rated to 2,500# at 113".

FYI.

That's a major improvement!

 

[acrozier]

You need to do some more/better research. The Case and NH machines that are made by LS have the same engine, frame, axles, etc regardless of whether they're blue with NH stickers, blue with LS stickers, or Red with Case stickers.

The versions with blue paint and LS stickers do have a more powerful loader than the Case or NH versions.

The other machines (compact tractors) made for CNH come from Shibaura, and you can't buy those directly, so it's an entirely different scenario.

Your Branson can lift 2,200lbs to 103.8" at the pins....not even close to what a Utility machine is normally capable of, and there are 40hp compact tractors that can lift a fair amount more. For example, Kioti's DK40SE or NX4510 can lift 2,761lbs to 108.3"....that's a big jump in capability to lift 561lbs more weight an extra 4". Short version...the Kioti loader is at least 25% more powerful, but it's still not a Utility tractor loader. Jump up to Kiot's RX series (Utility) and you add another 600lbs of lift (3,384lbs) but it will lift that an extra two feet higher. That's a major jump in capability...more than twice what your Branson can do to the same height.

Look at a Deere 5045E (smaller Utility machine) and the FEL capacity is 3,133lbs to 122"....again, a huge jump from 2,200lbs to 103.8"....well over a 50% increase.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your Branson, but it doesn't remotely compare to a Utility size tractor when you're talking about FEL use. The other thing is that there is more to it than just lift capacity...you have to be able to use it safely, and the Utility machines will have an advantage there as well.

You proved my point in your response. The LS has more loaloader capacity than equivalent NH. If you start comparing what you can get for equivalent money...the LSachines are heavier. LS has 3 makes. G, R and XR. The G seems to compare to the Boomer. It is the lightest of LS.

You compare my loader specs to utility tractors...but it is a CUT. Compared well to Kioti DS4510. I got the loader capacity I needed and tractor size / wt I wanted.

Had I wanted nearly 3000# of loader capacity...I could have step up to a larger branson. LIkely would have gone with a mahindra though.

 

[GManBart]

You proved my point in your response. The LS has more loaloader capacity than equivalent NH. If you start comparing what you can get for equivalent money...the LSachines are heavier. LS has 3 makes. G, R and XR. The G seems to compare to the Boomer. It is the lightest of LS.

You compare my loader specs to utility tractors...but it is a CUT. Compared well to Kioti DS4510. I got the loader capacity I needed and tractor size / wt I wanted.

Had I wanted nearly 3000# of loader capacity...I could have step up to a larger branson. LIkely would have gone with a mahindra though.

I agreed that LS had higher lift capacity on their versions, but that is no longer the case, as pointed out by TSO....the new CNH loader options are actually more powerful than what LS uses on theirs (and higher max lift height). FYI, I used to own an LS R4047, so I'm not anti-LS at all.

You're wrong about what sizes are comparable between LS and CNH. An LS R-series is the same as the New Holland Boomer 40/50 and Case Farmall 40/50B. They are essentially identical machines (different grille and headlights) that weigh the same.

The G-series LS is a much smaller machine than the NH Boomer or Case Farmall B models.

In the old line of machines, the LS R-4047 was the same as a NH Boomer 50 and Case Farmall 50B....same weights, same machines, different loaders.

In the new line of machines, the LS XR-4046 is the same as the NH Boomer 51 and Case Farmall 50C....same weights, same machines, different loaders. You can't go off Tractor Data info because they only list the weight for the XR with a cab, and the CNH models open station.

The XR loader will lift 2,500lbs to only 96.1". The CNH machines now offer the NH 270TL or Case L360 loader which can lift 2,500lbs to 113"....a significant improvement considering they lift the same weight an extra foot and a half.

When I compared your loader, I used a direct comparison...a Kioti DK40SE. Your 4020R base weight is 4063lbs with a wheelbase of 70.9". A DK40SE has a base weight of 4,230lbs and a wheelbase of 74". In short, the two are in the same basic size/weight class. A Kioti DS4510 has a base weight of 3,538lbs....so it's 500lbs less than your Branson, and it has the same loader as the DK40SE, so it can lift a lot more than your Branson.

You were the one to bring up the comparison with Utility machines when you said:
"Lift capacity is equal to what most would describe as a utility tractor...not a compact."

That's simply inaccurate....many CUTs offer as much, or significantly more than the FEL on your Branson, and Utility machines normally offer far more than that.

 

[eagle628]

You don't "think" ANY of the JD lawn tractors are American made? And you "know" your neighbor's JD riding mower is not? Please explain to me where JD Lawn Tractors and "Riding Mowers" are built, please?

P.S. I know where all of them are made, so please do your homework before replying

I think it comes down to whether "assembled" is the same as "made." I know my Deere garden tractor was assembled in Wisconsin. But the engine is a Japanese Yanmar and the transmission is a Japanese Tuff Torq. Same for my zero turn. It was assembled in North Carolina, but the engine and transmission are both Japanese (in this case Kawasaki and Kanzaki). I'm pretty sure the assembly was a little more involved than just adding fluids and tires, but still, it's not like I can say with a straight face that they're completely American made.

I try to buy American as much as I can. I do believe in supporting the US economy. That said, I'm also a realistic guy. Very few things are going to by 100% American made now, certainly nothing as complex as machinery. I'm not gonna lie, the fact that Deere equipment is at least partially made in the US is absolutely a factor in why I tend to buy green. If the choice is assembled in the US of foreign components versus assembled overseas of foreign components, I'll pick the former every time. But it's not the biggest factor.

 

[tman1020]

I would just like to add that where something is assembled and where its parts content comes from is important to me. I do believe that I am in the minority and I'm not saying that I don't buy foreign. Just that I do try. I know that when it comes to compact tractors most of them (majority of parts content and major assembly)do come from outside US. However some have more US content and assembly than others. I take this into consideration when I shop for anything. US does not always come out on top but it definitely weights on my decision.

 

[acrozier]

You don't "think" ANY of the JD lawn tractors are American made? And you "know" your neighbor's JD riding mower is not? Please explain to me where JD Lawn Tractors and "Riding Mowers" are built, please?

P.S. I know where all of them are made, so please do your homework before replying

His has the Vanguard engine. That is not a US made engine. I think you are considering "assembled in the US" the same as "made in the US". I do not.

 

[acrozier]

I would just like to add that where something is assembled and where its parts content comes from is important to me. I do believe that I am in the minority and I'm not saying that I don't buy foreign. Just that I do try. I know that when it comes to compact tractors most of them (majority of parts content and major assembly)do come from outside US. However some have more US content and assembly than others. I take this into consideration when I shop for anything. US does not always come out on top but it definitely weights on my decision.

I'm not a "Buy American" type. I buy what I feel is the best value for my dollar. I stated tht early on. Sorry if that offends people. But ultimately I believe foreign competition only forces US companies to improve their product. When the US item gives me the best bang for my buck...I'll buy it in a heartbeat. If the best value is a foreign product, that is OK too. Ultimately my tractor was sold and serviced by a local establishment. So it really doesn't bother me where it was made.

 

[acrozier]

You need to do some more/better research. The Case and NH machines that are made by LS have the same engine, frame, axles, etc regardless of whether they're blue with NH stickers, blue with LS stickers, or Red with Case stickers.

The versions with blue paint and LS stickers do have a more powerful loader than the Case or NH versions.

The other machines (compact tractors) made for CNH come from Shibaura, and you can't buy those directly, so it's an entirely different scenario.

Your Branson can lift 2,200lbs to 103.8" at the pins....not even close to what a Utility machine is normally capable of, and there are 40hp compact tractors that can lift a fair amount more. For example, Kioti's DK40SE or NX4510 can lift 2,761lbs to 108.3"....that's a big jump in capability to lift 561lbs more weight an extra 4". Short version...the Kioti loader is at least 25% more powerful, but it's still not a Utility tractor loader. Jump up to Kiot's RX series (Utility) and you add another 600lbs of lift (3,384lbs) but it will lift that an extra two feet higher. That's a major jump in capability...more than twice what your Branson can do to the same height.

Look at a Deere 5045E (smaller Utility machine) and the FEL capacity is 3,133lbs to 122"....again, a huge jump from 2,200lbs to 103.8"....well over a 50% increase.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your Branson, but it doesn't remotely compare to a Utility size tractor when you're talking about FEL use. The other thing is that there is more to it than just lift capacity...you have to be able to use it safely, and the Utility machines will have an advantage there as well.

I will stand by my comment. As I looked at the various CUT models in my price range ( an important comment I left out in my previous post) had loader capacities around 1500lbs. Some less, some more...particularly in the 35 - 40 range. While the 2200# capacity of my loader is less than a bunch of the utility tractors, it seemed more comparable than the #1500 that I was seeing. My heaviest load is #1200-#1300 lbs. I wanted a little leeway, so #2200 was good for me. I was actually originally looking at a 35hp tractor. The Branson 3520R has the same loader as the 4020R that I bought. I only bought the 4020R since the dealer had a better deal on it and it was a Tier 3 motor. I did NOT want a tier 4! As I looked at tractors. The Branson, Mahindra and Kioti tractors where much beefier and more capable than what I saw from the JD, NH & Farmall CUTs. That was the point of my post.

Does mine fit the definition of a Utility tractor....no...it is a CUT. But much like my little 35hp Mahindra. People seemed surprised at what that little tractor could do. Heck, I was surprised when it was demonstrated to me. That is why I bought the darn thing.

I seemed to have started a ruckus on here. The point of all my posts....we are a global economy. If a Korean or Japanese company makes a great tractor and successfully sells them in the US, that will employ Americans through distributorships, parts suppliers and mechanics. No tractor that I know of is 100% American. If your shopping for a tractor, give an honest look at the "foreign" tractors. Read the forums, see what the people that actually own the tractors have to say. Talk to the dealers that sell MORE than one brand if possible. If you MUST by what you consider to be an American tractor because it has a higher percentage of American parts, good for you and go ahead.

Many of the foreign tractors are great values. They are pushing to expand market share in the US. I will use my Mahindra as an example. I went from a Ford 8N, to a small JD. I then decided it was time for a new tractor. Mahindra was really making a push in the US. I compared tractors. I found that Mahindra manufactured tractors for IH for many many years. That was a plus in my book. I talked to others that had their Mahindra's a few years and finally pulled the trigger on one. Saved several thousand and never looked back. Tractor never given me a second of trouble in 10-yrs. I wanted to upgrade to shuttle shift and an FEL. Looked around. Talked to owners and a couple of dealers out of state that sold Mahindra and Branson. Winner this time was Branson. Dealer I bought from also sold Kioti. I came close to buying a Kioti 4510. Dealer was confident I would be happy with either one. But ultimately the features and ergonomics on the Branson were more to my liking. It might have been a bad decision. Only time will tell. But my personal experience has been that foreign goods these days are pretty good quality once they get marketed in the US.

I really understand the buy American thing. I remember having the discussion with my Mom when she was looking for a new car. I dug around and found that at the time, the Honda and Toyota that was comparable to the US car she was looking at actually had a higher US component percentage. She bought the Toyota and loved it. The US car was a Cadillac, that so happened to really be an Opal with different sheet metal. The freaking dealer had no idea it was really an Opal. The Toyota was cheaper and in her words "felt nicer". A few years later. I was doing the same comparison. This time the US car had the higher US component percentage and was the better buy. But now she realizes that just because it has a US company name on it...it may or may not really be US.
Heck, I even bought a brand spanking new Dodge Ram in 1997. I got it home, opened the door and found it was assembled in Mexico City.

 

[GManBart]

I will stand by my comment. As I looked at the various CUT models in my price range ( an important comment I left out in my previous post) had loader capacities around 1500lbs. Some less, some more...particularly in the 35 - 40 range. While the 2200# capacity of my loader is less than a bunch of the utility tractors, it seemed more comparable than the #1500 that I was seeing. My heaviest load is #1200-#1300 lbs. I wanted a little leeway, so #2200 was good for me. I was actually originally looking at a 35hp tractor. The Branson 3520R has the same loader as the 4020R that I bought. I only bought the 4020R since the dealer had a better deal on it and it was a Tier 3 motor.

First you said that Case and NH machines made by LS were built lighter than their LS badged counterparts....not true.

Then you said your Branson had an FEL capacity that was closer to what most folks would describe as a Utility tractor....totally wrong. It doesn't even have as much capacity as other popular machines that are the same size/weight....which makes the comment even more silly.

If you want to stand by factually incorrect statements I guess it doesn't really matter much.

As I looked at tractors. The Branson, Mahindra and Kioti tractors where much beefier and more capable than what I saw from the JD, NH & Farmall CUTs. That was the point of my post.

Comparing tractors by price, rather than by size/weight and power makes for a pretty poor comparison. If you compare machines of equal size and weight from those same companies, they're going to be about as "beefy" and capable as one another. They won't cost the same, but that's an entirely different topic.

 

[acrozier]

First you said that Case and NH machines made by LS were built lighter than their LS badged counterparts....not true.

Then you said your Branson had an FEL capacity that was closer to what most folks would describe as a Utility tractor....totally wrong. It doesn't even have as much capacity as other popular machines that are the same size/weight....which makes the comment even more silly.

If you want to stand by factually incorrect statements I guess it doesn't really matter much.




Comparing tractors by price, rather than by size/weight and power makes for a pretty poor comparison. If you compare machines of equal size and weight from those same companies, they're going to be about as "beefy" and capable as one another. They won't cost the same, but that's an entirely different topic.

Your method of comparison seems silly to me. Compare equivalent size and weight....of course the capabilities will be nearly the same. Your not really comparing anything except maybe features and engine.

I add in price. I want the most I can get for my money. But that is just me. You compare the way you want. I will compare the way I want. How I compare works for ME. I think most people want the most people buying CUTS tractor for their money.

As far as lift capacities. I didn't find many with #3000 at the 3pt and #2000 at the FEL. Several had comparable or higher capacities on FEL. I don't recall many with the 3pt capacity. That is where I lift most of my heaviest loads....the 3pt.

 

[TSO]

Your method of comparison seems silly to me. Compare equivalent size and weight....of course the capabilities will be nearly the same. Your not really comparing anything except maybe features and engine.

I add in price. I want the most I can get for my money. But that is just me. You compare the way you want. I will compare the way I want. How I compare works for ME. I think most people want the most people buying CUTS tractor for their money.

As far as lift capacities. I didn't find many with #3000 at the 3pt and #2000 at the FEL. Several had comparable or higher capacities on FEL. I don't recall many with the 3pt capacity. That is where I lift most of my heaviest loads....the 3pt.

I don't agree ... There are many differences between the offerings from the competing brands, in regards to specific capabilities. For example, take a 40-50 HP CUT. They are all relatively close in weight, but the difference from low to high may be as much as 700lbs, which is pretty significant.

Same goes for 3pt lift... I think the Massey has the highest at 3,480# @ ball ends. I don't recall who had the lowest, but it was around 2,500#. That's a big difference.

Same also applies for the loader. The Mahindra ML155/156 is rated at over 3100# @ 115" (the best in the CUT class) ... And that is a HUGE difference from yours at 2200#. The segment average seems to be around 2500#.

Point is, apples to apples generally requires that a category be selected to define characteristics. Now, I can understand if you said "I'm going to spend $18000 ... What offers the most capacity at $18k..?" But even then, I'm not sure that the Branson wins once you factor all the specs of the $18k offerings.

 

[GManBart]

Your method of comparison seems silly to me. Compare equivalent size and weight....of course the capabilities will be nearly the same. Your not really comparing anything except maybe features and engine.

If you had compared on size and weight, you would have found many similar sized machines that offered significantly more FEL capacity, and at least as much FEL capacity.

That DS4510 (actually weighs 500lbs less than your Branson) lifts way more on the FEL and at least as much on the 3pt. They only list 2,425lbs @24" which puts it well over 3,000lbs at the balls ends....probably 3,500lbs. Your Branson 3pt lift figure is at the ball ends, which always gives a higher figure than the 24" spec most companies use. There are a lot of 40hp machines that have 24" 3pt lift figures in the 2,500lb+ range.

After reading many comparison threads over the past few years, most people seem to factor cost in after they decide on minimum capabilities required. No sense buying anything if it won't get the job done.

You're simply not comparing apples-to-apples your way, and you suggested there were differences between machines that are actually the same as a way of supporting it...much less claiming that your Branson has FEL capacity that most people would consider a utility category. That really doesn't help someone (especially a newbie) considering a Branson, or any other brand.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

At the end of the day, is everybody happy with their tractors?

'Cause that's what matters.

 

[GManBart]

At the end of the day, is everybody happy with their tractors?

'Cause that's what matters.

Say it ain't so! :laughing: