Anyone have problems with the Rollover Link

[J_J]

I did not know these things had to be greased. There is no zert, not that you need it.

JJ, I have been seriously thinking of just rigging up flat stock as you suggested. But, it was my local welder who cautioned me with "Maybe it is supposed to break off" The front end is just 1430 front (No offense please) so what sort of damage would I do if I put the flat stock on. Would I tweak a $500 assembly over a $50 fix?

That is the dilemma for sure. Any thoughts?

Carl, Expand on my picture above, and look at that bar. That is what came with the machine, and has been used for at least 12 to 14 years. What kind of welder do you utilize. I mean the guy. A break away fixture could get you in serious trouble. Your broke connector arm is the first I have seen. There is really no need for swivel eyes on that bar. A solid piece would be better.

 

[J_J]

Why don't you try an AG top link? They are pretty cheap and adjustable. Can't hurt to try it. I think I paid 20 bucks for a couple of them because I wanted the ends for my backhoe project.

If anything, just use the ends from the AG top link and weld them to some solid stock.

David, I think Carl would destroy that top-link in short order. He is doing some serious landscaping on his property.

 

[J_J]

Carl, Something else for you to consider. I believe that all three cylinders on the front are the same. They are capable of lifting about three times the rated load. That is on a straight push. The setup on the PT only pushes at an angle decreasing max push effort. Now consider this, the tilt cylinder is being asked to tilt the same load that 2 cyl were lifting. There is something wrong with that. I think the tilt cylinder should be larger in diameter and shaft size, to make it at least equal. There is some mechanical advantage there also, based on the length of the tilt arms. That might compensate, maybe not.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Carl, Something else for you to consider. I believe that all three cylinders on the front are the same. They are capable of lifting about three times the rated load. That is on a straight push. The setup on the PT only pushes at an angle decreasing max push effort. Now consider this, the tilt cylinder is being asked to tilt the same load that 2 cyl were lifting. There is something wrong with that. I think the tilt cylinder should be larger in diameter and shaft size, to make it at least equal. There is some mechanical advantage there also, based on the length of the tilt arms. That might compensate, maybe not.

I completely agree with this assessment. I have also bent this cylinder a couple of times as well. A complete mystery to me why this cylinder is so weak. I have yet, though, found a cylinder at Surplus Center I feel would work. Still looking. Any thoughts? I think I have the dimensions around here somewhere (I am back in LA for the moment).

 

[woodlandfarms]

Carl, Expand on my picture above, and look at that bar. That is what came with the machine, and has been used for at least 12 to 14 years. What kind of welder do you utilize. I mean the guy. A break away fixture could get you in serious trouble. Your broke connector arm is the first I have seen. There is really no need for swivel eyes on that bar. A solid piece would be better.

Maybe using Grade 2 bolts would provide a bit of emergency "give". Probably what is in there considering how PT puts stuff together.

I would like to ask all the 14 series and 18 series owners to take a look at there toplink / rollover connector. Look hard at that ball. I realized last week I had hairline cracks in mine and I wonder how many other people do.

 

[Marks481]

Now consider this, the tilt cylinder is being asked to tilt the same load that 2 cyl were lifting.

Look at the geometry of the cylinders. The lift cylinders push on the front arm very close to the swivel, so they are at a huge mechanical disadvantage (probably 10:1 or more).

The tilt cylinder has some disadvantage (3:1) based upon the extreme angles that it acts on, but I would be very surprised if it carried anywhere near the load of the lift cylinders. It is not surprising that the hollow cross-over tube has problems, however, with the load placed on the middle of the tube like it is. If there were room for some triangular 3/8" steel gussets on it, it might improve it's rigidity (although definitely a task for a professional welder, to avoid embrittlement of the tubing due to to much heat).

If the tilt cylinder is bending, then it means that it is seeing side loading, which shouldn't be possible unless your crossover arm is binding when it is trying to rotate (lubrication not going where it is supposed to?).

Maybe you should consider the repeated failures of the top link a blessing in disguise; is it the sacrificial element that is preventing too much load on the cross-over tube (which would be much more expensive to repair)?

 

[J_J]

Look at the geometry of the cylinders. The lift cylinders push on the front arm very close to the swivel, so they are at a huge mechanical disadvantage (probably 10:1 or more).

The tilt cylinder has some disadvantage (3:1) based upon the extreme angles that it acts on, but I would be very surprised if it carried anywhere near the load of the lift cylinders. It is not surprising that the hollow cross-over tube has problems, however, with the load placed on the middle of the tube like it is. If there were room for some triangular 3/8" steel gussets on it, it might improve it's rigidity (although definitely a task for a professional welder, to avoid embrittlement of the tubing due to to much heat).

If the tilt cylinder is bending, then it means that it is seeing side loading, which shouldn't be possible unless your crossover arm is binding when it is trying to rotate (lubrication not going where it is supposed to?).

Maybe you should consider the repeated failures of the top link a blessing in disguise; is it the sacrificial element that is preventing too much load on the cross-over tube (which would be much more expensive to repair)?

My assessment of the situation is this. The attachments and the extreme loading on the front is causing the problem. That force can cause the cylinder to burst or bend the shaft. Just from looking at the picture above, the QA plate is at a bad angle, and if the QA plate were tilted up any more, it looks like it could hit the crossover tube. 90 degree angles will transmit the most force, so any work done at the angle in the picture is suspect, as it can not take full loading very long before cracks are seen as Carl has stated. The perfect setup would be if the push force of the cylinder is transmitted to the end use. Otherwise, 3000 lbs of force from the cylinder would be felt at the bucket up front, as though the cylinder were pushing at the bucket at a 90 degree angle. That would also be the worst situation if you wanted to blow the cylinder by ramming a full bucket into a pile of dirt hoping to get a little more. The ram effect.

 

[ponytug]

The lack of grease may be your problem. (I'd bet on it, even with your hidden obstacles.) There should be a zerk on a drilled out bolt. Without grease, the swivel eye will freeze on the linkage arm under load (a pressure weld), which will generate a great deal of force on the metal of the arm. All of the swivels on my PT have zerks, except for the four on the steering cylinders. So, if you don't have a zerk on a moving joint, I would get the replacement bolts from PT.

The break is suggestive of it being ripped open. Do you have signs of galling on the swivel eye, or the metal of the arm?

All the best,

Peter

I did not know these things had to be greased. There is no zert, not that you need it.

JJ, I have been seriously thinking of just rigging up flat stock as you suggested. But, it was my local welder who cautioned me with "Maybe it is supposed to break off" The front end is just 1430 front (No offense please) so what sort of damage would I do if I put the flat stock on. Would I tweak a $500 assembly over a $50 fix?

That is the dilemma for sure. Any thoughts?

 

[KentT]

My PT-425 rollover links, neither the original or the new replacement, have grease zerks -- just the ball/socket swivel like those on the ends of the steering cylinders. I've been spraying them with white lithium grease.

 

[SnowRidge]

My PT-425 rollover links, neither the original or the new replacement, have grease zerks -- just the ball/socket swivel like those on the ends of the steering cylinders. I've been spraying them with white lithium grease.

I asked Terry about that. He said swivels with zerks were so expensive that you could replace a couple of regular swivels for the price of one with a zerk.

What I don't get is all the lift arm parts rotating on bolts, with no lube fittings anywhere except the rollover tube. The Ansung loader on my Branson has hollow pins with zerks everywhere.