Are we running out of fossil fuels? - peak oil theory

[IH3444]

Thanks Bstrom. We can make our own oil, its not cheap.

 

[bstrom]

Thanks Bstrom. We can make our own oil, its not cheap.

We could collect it from McDonalds' Friolators!

 

[IH3444]

We could collect it from McDonalds' Friolators!

Great idea bstrom.

Biodiesel is the way to the future. Google Volkswagen Lupe. Great little car with a 3 cylinder TDI 1000cc engine. Something like 85mpg. Should sell it here in the states. Big hit in europe.

 

[inveresk]

A girl that I was dating took me duck hunting on her families farm in Arkansas for New Years Eve. Their land is next to some timber property that is also a private duck hunting club. Very fancy with a ton of money going into the duck hunting and flooding the timber for their clients to come and enjoy.

The founder and previous owner of the timber company took us to his personal blind for a day of shooting, which was some of the best duck hunting that I've ever experienced!!!!!

At the lodge, the current owner of the company sat down with us to talk hunting. The conversation turned to timber and then of all things, converting timber into oil. Unlike methonal, which is corn based, timber can be converted into light sweet crude for about $100 a barrel. At that price, current technology exists to make this happen. He was one of the finalist for a large refinery to be built in his area and to be able to supply the timber for the new refinery. The state of Alabama steped in with some tax insentives that Arkansas didn't match, so the plant is being built there instead.

This is all second hand information, but from a source that sure seemed to know what he was talking about.

Eddie

I agree - timber is definitely a better source for biofuel than corn. The Swedes have been using waste from birch forests for years and get a high conversion rate but they have a big country and a small population and their buildings are incredibly highly insulated so a barrel goes a long way.

It's my understanding that a problem arises in a world with a population approaching 7 billion and rising. What proportion of our arable land would we need to give over, or what proportion of our remaining virgin land would be sacrificed, for planting for biofuels? Do we have enough land to satisfy food demand and energy demand?

Here's one authoritative view on the subject of biofuels. I think this guy comes from a place that doesn't have vested interests in any particular camp so as far as I can see he's impartial.

Land equivalent to 30 football pitches will be needed for one biofuel flight to New York

Here's also a second view that argues that there is enough land. Who to believe. They can't both be right.

Study: We致e Got Plenty of Land for Biofuels | Autopia | Wired.com

Likely biofuels can make a significant contribution but it's still carbon based and still pollutes. The thing I like about a hydrogen based fuel such as the Cella Energy link I posted earlier is that it is carbon free and what you get out of your tailpipe if you burn hydrogen is water. Effectively pollution free. God willing, we'll develop a hydrogen based supply in time.

LBrown59, here's another view of the Bakken reserve, this one suggesting that the Bakken has the realistic potential to supply only 1.1% of the country's daily needs.

The Oil Drum | The Bakken Formation: How Much Will It Help?

Again, who to believe.

 

[ham]

No lack of oil at all. The Bakkan system is begger that the Saudis. The Three Forks find is bigger than all of the Middle East. They just keep this stuff under raps. I know what we have here in Montana and North Dakota straight from the guys drilling it. But go ahead and believe the guys telling you we are running out. There are a lot of good reasons to continue improving our tech and getting our energy elsewhere, but in oil's case, there is a glut.

 

[inveresk]

No lack of oil at all. The Bakkan system is begger that the Saudis. The Three Forks find is bigger than all of the Middle East. They just keep this stuff under raps. I know what we have here in Montana and North Dakota straight from the guys drilling it. But go ahead and believe the guys telling you we are running out. There are a lot of good reasons to continue improving our tech and getting our energy elsewhere, but in oil's case, there is a glut.

Who keeps what under wraps? I'm unclear why anyone would subdue this information or even that they could in the long term. While I accept that conspiracies arise, I find it hard to do the math on the oil companies not going h3ll for leather to exploit a find like this if it relieved America's energy problems for an indefinite period. The American government would surely promote the exploitation of reserves that would ensure the country could be energy independent. It can't be in the national interest to pay middle east prices for oil when you're trying to compete as a country with the likes of China. If the oil companies are keeping this under wraps to keep prices artificially high, the American government must be complicit in them doing so. That's possible, I suppose, but is it likely?

 

[Ken]

Who keeps what under wraps? I'm unclear why anyone would subdue this information or even that they could in the long term. While I accept that conspiracies arise, I find it hard to do the math on the oil companies not going h3ll for leather to exploit a find like this if it relieved America's energy problems for an indefinite period. The American government would surely promote the exploitation of reserves that would ensure the country could be energy independent. It can't be in the national interest to pay middle east prices for oil when you're trying to compete as a country with the likes of China. If the oil companies are keeping this under wraps to keep prices artificially high, the American government must be complicit in them doing so. That's possible, I suppose, but is it likely?

40 years ago the oil/gas companys quit leasing the mineral rights to this area because of there checking and not enough Natural gas to be commerical. Then 8 years ago quietly the property was being leased at minimum amount. 5 years ago the Fayettville shale was announced and horizontal drilling begin. A 42inch pipe line was put in service and gas going toward Chicago. with in a year the 2nd. 42 inch pipe line was laid next to the one in service. Today there is natural gas wells in every section and pipe line to these 2 42 inch lines. So from no commerical to adbundance of natural gas. Who do you believe Remember Pres. Carter shuting down the natural gas lines due to shortage of this fuel. ken

 

[inveresk]

40 years ago the oil/gas companys quit leasing the mineral rights to this area because of there checking and not enough Natural gas to be commerical. Then 8 years ago quietly the property was being leased at minimum amount. 5 years ago the Fayettville shale was announced and horizontal drilling begin. A 42inch pipe line was put in service and gas going toward Chicago. with in a year the 2nd. 42 inch pipe line was laid next to the one in service. Today there is natural gas wells in every section and pipe line to these 2 42 inch lines. So from no commerical to adbundance of natural gas. Who do you believe Remember Pres. Carter shuting down the natural gas lines due to shortage of this fuel. ken

Is that due to some sort of conspiracy, or could it be that what wasn't economically exploitable years ago now is because the cost of energy has gone up so much? The Alberta tar sands were only worth exploiting recently for that very reason.

 

[Ken]

Is that due to some sort of conspiracy, or could it be that what wasn't economically exploitable years ago now is because the cost of energy has gone up so much? The Alberta tar sands were only worth exploiting recently for that very reason.

Wouldn't think any conspiracy involved .It sure gave a lot of realestate sales people time seperate the mineral rights from the surface rights . There is a great deal of discussions now going on. Used to be if it wasn't mentioned the minerals stayed with surface rights. But who reads the small print on back side of sheet#35 stating the minerals had been stripped before the sale.
Our property here has been in oil/gas lease since the early 1920's when oil. discovered in Smack Over, Ark. but returned to state in 29/30 depression for back taxes amount $5.00 took the owner 3 years to get back . I only wish all these years those who lived near poverty could of enjoyed what they owned never realized. ken

 

[charlz]

The thing with biofuels isn't how much land but how much water. You can't grow intensively without irrigation water.