ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!! Broke my tractor.... Engine Block went SNAP...

[dqdave1]

I too have a class II boomer and that is what I want; it fits exactly my needs, mine is a TC29; next time it will be a tc 34. I also went out and inspected my block at the locations of your problem. Mine looks fine, mine now has 1460 hours on it. I "use" my tractor for all it is worth. You had a problem, fix it and move on. Bare block is probably the way to go, as you check all your parts you will have a new motor. I have 3 stuck glow plugs that refuse to come out. I will have to pull the head to resolve the problem, but I now look at it as a 1460 hour inspection of top end of engine.
If you get away with $2000.00, that is a far cry from $8000.00 and if your dealer works with you and "gives" you some free labor; it will be back workin shortly.

 

[KrisHansen]

I too have a class II boomer and that is what I want; it fits exactly my needs, mine is a TC29; next time it will be a tc 34. I also went out and inspected my block at the locations of your problem. Mine looks fine, mine now has 1460 hours on it. I "use" my tractor for all it is worth. You had a problem, fix it and move on. Bare block is probably the way to go, as you check all your parts you will have a new motor. I have 3 stuck glow plugs that refuse to come out. I will have to pull the head to resolve the problem, but I now look at it as a 1460 hour inspection of top end of engine.
If you get away with $2000.00, that is a far cry from $8000.00 and if your dealer works with you and "gives" you some free labor; it will be back workin shortly.

The service rep won't put a bare block on it. He said it's too much work. He said the rings won't want to seat. He went on and on as to why the short block is a better option.

I'm not a diesel mech. I can work on gas engines all day, but I have not any experience with diesel engines other than running them.

We'll see. Push comes to shove, I'll see what it's worth on trade and get a TC34 with a 14LA, which is braced significantly more than the 7308.

I use my tractor as a tractor. It's not a golf cart. ****, my 10 year old Honda ATV gets more of a pounding than the tractor ever did, and it comes back for more, every time.

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Jinman beat me to the keyboard, I think that this incident is not a defect in the design, very possibly in the casting, assembly, or abuse of some sort;- (NOT trying to shift the blame, or beat up on you!)
I strongly feel if this were a design flaw, it would have surfaced not long after the Boomers hit the market. I put my TC33DA/14LA equipped toy through **** pushing downed trees, debris and such after hurricane Rita, and seriously doubt I would have any warranty if the NH people saw me in action. I know that others have abused this series also, and for problems such as yours not to be more commonplace convinces me that the cause is not the design.

I wish you all the luck, and a speedy, economical recovery.

Very true that a design flaw is unlikely, but it wouldn't be the first time I ran across a problem caused by the assmbly guy that wasn't feeling good that day, or was breaking in the new kid who he thought had a bolt torqued up, and the kid thought the boss did it...

That old crack at the bolt boss piqued my interest. I don't know if a good analysis would sway the dealer or not, but if that bolt was never tightened properly (don't forget that malfomed threads on either piece, or other causes, can make a bolt appear to reach it's proper torque when it hasn't), this thing could have been an accident waiting to happen.

I just don't know enough about it, and perhaps ought to just let it go, but I hate seeing a guy's pocket's emptied because of a freaky thing like this that may not be his fault at all. It's a durn sight cheaper for them to fix than they'll charge you to fix it, I'm sure you know how that goes.

Edited to add: Reviewed a bit, looked at the crack pics and your comment about it breaking as though it was arched, like this ^, as you noted. If you are operating as shown in the picture-link in your signature, that's exactly how I'd expect it to break, if it wasn't strong enough.

Still can't get my head around the hook weld-up, looked at your site, don't know where the 300 ft-lb bolt was... Probably wasn't a contributor, though...

Later,

Tom

 

[KrisHansen]

Very true that a design flaw is unlikely, but it wouldn't be the first time I ran across a problem caused by the assmbly guy that wasn't feeling good that day, or was breaking in the new kid who he thought had a bolt torqued up, and the kid thought the boss did it...

That old crack at the bolt boss piqued my interest. I don't know if a good analysis would sway the dealer or not, but if that bolt was never tightened properly (don't forget that malfomed threads on either piece, or other causes, can make a bolt appear to reach it's proper torque when it hasn't), this thing could have been an accident waiting to happen.

I just don't know enough about it, and perhaps ought to just let it go, but I hate seeing a guy's pocket's emptied because of a freaky thing like this that may not be his fault at all. It's a durn sight cheaper for them to fix than they'll charge you to fix it, I'm sure you know how that goes.

Edited to add: Reviewed a bit, looked at the crack pics and your comment about it breaking as though it was arched, like this ^, as you noted. If you are operating as shown in the picture-link in your signature, that's exactly how I'd expect it to break, if it wasn't strong enough.

Still can't get my head around the hook weld-up, looked at your site, don't know where the 300 ft-lb bolt was... Probably wasn't a contributor, though...

Later,

Tom

The bolts hold the hook part to the long arm part. They don't stay tight, and the loader starts flopping around. At least mine did..

 

[dqdave1]

My arms used to come loose also; I replaced the bolts, washers and nuts and used lock tite and they stay pretty tight.
I would ask around about moving your pistons , etc. to a new block. I find it hard to believe you cannot do it. I can see using new rings so they can seat, new bearings also may be a good idea, but it sounds like a lazy repair shop. You may want to post a new thread in another section asking the pro and con of moving old parts into a new bare block.

 

[ctjstr]

The service rep won't put a bare block on it. He said it's too much work. He said the rings won't want to seat. He went on and on as to why the short block is a better option.

I'm not a diesel mech. I can work on gas engines all day, but I have not any experience with diesel engines other than running them.

We'll see. Push comes to shove, I'll see what it's worth on trade and get a TC34 with a 14LA, which is braced significantly more than the 7308.

I use my tractor as a tractor. It's not a golf cart. ****, my 10 year old Honda ATV gets more of a pounding than the tractor ever did, and it comes back for more, every time.

FWIW, I was in the same boat, i.e. no diesel experience to speak of. Having said that, the internal workings on my TC35 are relatively simple. much less complicated then most newer gas engine rigs. Swapping out the block wouldn't be my favorite task, but I'd bet if you've got decent mechanical skills in general, you'll get through it without a huge amount of heartburn. I'd put new rings and bearings etc, but most of the other stuff would be pretty easy to swap out.

 

[RickB]

My arms used to come loose also; I replaced the bolts, washers and nuts and used lock tite and they stay pretty tight.
I would ask around about moving your pistons , etc. to a new block. I find it hard to believe you cannot do it. I can see using new rings so they can seat, new bearings also may be a good idea, but it sounds like a lazy repair shop. You may want to post a new thread in another section asking the pro and con of moving old parts into a new bare block.

It is most likely that no one is suggesting it can't be done. It is probably more about how many hours of $70 or so labor that it takes to do it properly versus the cost of an assembled short block. Engine work is time consuming exacting work even for the experienced. Surely a bare block makes sense for the DIY'er with the willingness or experience required.

 

[AlanB]

I was thinking along the lines of what RickB just said,

If I was doing it, it would be bare block.

If I was paying a commercial NH shop to do it, swap in a short block.

How many hours labor would it take to swap everything over and I am betting that the shop is trying to minimize their exposure of something going wrong.

I think if you could find a small local independent shop, they would be willing to do the block swap.

 

[dqdave1]

Is CNH willing to help you at all? Is the dealer willing to help you? SHort block at 7700 dollars and bare block at 1500 dollars equals $6200.00 in labor ?? Thats 88 hours to disassemble and reassemble the unit. I am not a diesel mechanic, and do not want to be, but I would think one could save some serious cash by paying to transfer existing items to a new block and have a very reliable machine. Rick B; I know you are well trained in this field; approx. how many hours would it take a qualified mechanic to pull the block ( which has to be done regardless) disassemble old block, do the needed work and reassemble new block and reinstall?
Does short block come with head or is it block, crank and pistons?
I have read where you can weld this block; considering this crack, I would avoid welding. If done correctly you may be ok, but read up on welding cast iron, it is usally done incorrectly do to not heating block correctly.

 

[RickB]

Is CNH willing to help you at all? Is the dealer willing to help you? SHort block at 7700 dollars and bare block at 1500 dollars equals $6200.00 in labor ?? Thats 88 hours to disassemble and reassemble the unit. I am not a diesel mechanic, and do not want to be, but I would think one could save some serious cash by paying to transfer existing items to a new block and have a very reliable machine. Rick B; I know you are well trained in this field; approx. how many hours would it take a qualified mechanic to pull the block ( which has to be done regardless) disassemble old block, do the needed work and reassemble new block and reinstall?
Does short block come with head or is it block, crank and pistons?
I have read where you can weld this block; considering this crack, I would avoid welding. If done correctly you may be ok, but read up on welding cast iron, it is usally done incorrectly do to not heating block correctly.

Sorry, I am going to cop out on that. I won't provide estimates for work to be done by a shop I know nothing about. An experienced tech in a well equipped shop with all the proper support is one thing. There are dealerships out there that have the bare minimum or less available staffed by a dried up talent pool. I can tell you there will be parts costs along with a bare block that have to be considered as well. That will shrink the $6200 dollar 'labor' difference.