ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!! Broke my tractor.... Engine Block went SNAP...

[KrisHansen]

Kris, there are a lot of guys on TBN with Class II Boomers and both 7308 and 14LA loaders. Surely, if there was a danger, others would have the same problem. I just can't see that you are treating that tractor all that hard. You have a factory loader on the tractor it was designed for. You should not be able to overload the structure of that tractor. I think you had a defective block or your tractor was dropped sometime during delivery. I believe that if you buy the bare block and rebuild this tractor, you will see no more problems like this. For the price, I think that would be what I would do.

If you have to try and beef up the running gear, I guess you could. Like you, it would be very hard for me to have faith in that tractor again, but if this was a repeatable problem, surely we would hear more of it on TBN. Don't "rip your guts out" worrying about the tractor after the fix. You have enough problems just going through the grief of fixing your tractor without the added worry.

...my two cents.

Thanks Jim! honestly, I don't think I'd have a hard time trusting it after a fix, it's not the first time I've ever broken something, just the first time I've had something this big, and expensive break from normal use! =)

I'll see what NH says, and go from there.. either way, I've got to fix this thing , because I NEED it, and because it's probably not worth a dime on trade in for a newer rig.

 

[AlanB]

I have to go look at mine now

Sorry about your luck, I Have a 1925 (Predecessor to yours) with the 7308 and have broken the loader arms a couple times, and hope like heck I have never broken my block (although after seeing your pictures, I will be looking close tonight)

It really suprises me that the block broke prior to the round bolt on arm breaking.

I would suspect that being cold, and an impact, probably had a real negative effect on that cast.

I would be interested to see how you strengthen it.

Last time I broke my supports, my dad and I spoke about strengthening mine, but we made the decision that I would rather break and repair or replace them all day rather then get into what you have encountered.

I would have to think a long time about how deep to go repairing that one if it was me. There are some inserts etc that make excellent cast repairs that I would probably be looking at really hard for $1500 block. And if I could do it in chassis, that would certainly sweeten the pot for me. I will try and remember their names and will update here if I can find them.

This is what I would probably try. I have a freind that does them, and would probably get him involved with me too get it right. (guess I should stick the link in )

LOCK-N-STITCH Inc. homepage: Cast iron crack repair, cast iron welding, thread repair inserts

As the gentleman before said, with the good and bad choices, I agree, but it would be worth some risk too me to at least try it.

I think the trick for me would be to find a similar motor apart to see if I could figure out what all was compromised inside the block where it was cracked. That would be the "biggie" for me.

Good luck.

 

[IH3444]

Kris, do you think that welding up the front FEL mount tight could have put extra strain onto the block? I was looking at your pictures, and descriptions of the work you have done to your TC33.

 

[KrisHansen]

I have to go look at mine now

Sorry about your luck, I Have a 1925 (Predecessor to yours) with the 7308 and have broken the loader arms a couple times, and hope like heck I have never broken my block (although after seeing your pictures, I will be looking close tonight)

It really suprises me that the block broke prior to the round bolt on arm breaking.

I would suspect that being cold, and an impact, probably had a real negative effect on that cast.

I would be interested to see how you strengthen it.

Last time I broke my supports, my dad and I spoke about strengthening mine, but we made the decision that I would rather break and repair or replace them all day rather then get into what you have encountered.

I would have to think a long time about how deep to go repairing that one if it was me. There are some inserts etc that make excellent cast repairs that I would probably be looking at really hard for $1500 block. And if I could do it in chassis, that would certainly sweeten the pot for me. I will try and remember their names and will update here if I can find them.

This is what I would probably try. I have a freind that does them, and would probably get him involved with me too get it right. (guess I should stick the link in )

LOCK-N-STITCH Inc. homepage: Cast iron crack repair, cast iron welding, thread repair inserts

As the gentleman before said, with the good and bad choices, I agree, but it would be worth some risk too me to at least try it.

I think the trick for me would be to find a similar motor apart to see if I could figure out what all was compromised inside the block where it was cracked. That would be the "biggie" for me.

Good luck.

Well, if there WAS any impact, I didn't feel it. I tend to not ram things with it. It was just a slide the bucket in, and lift it up situation. nothing dramatic at all. Yes, it was cold, but the machine had been running for at least 1/2 hour and was fully up to temps.

I'll wait to see what the NH dealer says and proceed..

 

[KrisHansen]

Kris, do you think that welding up the front FEL mount tight could have put extra strain onto the block? I was looking at your pictures, and descriptions of the work you have done to your TC33.

I really don't know. I suppose it's possible, though I was told when I got it to keep those hooks TIGHT..

I'd be willing to bet that the loader being able to sway 3 inches either way would cause more stress than being tight, but I don't know..

 

[TomOfTarsus]

I wish I could help more but I just don't know the layout of everything in enough detail. If I can, I'll have a better look.

But just off the top of my head, when the previous poster said "welded up tight," I got concerned. A highly accomplished fellow we used to work with, who spent his life and published many papers on fatigue of metals, told me to always keep in mind that "failure is always a matter of too much constraint." Just imagine the old paper clip thing - you constrain it to move back and forth, back and forth, until it breaks.

In your case (and again, i'm only going by the previous post, not the particulars of what you did), is it possible you made a connection that could transmit more or different forces (especially bending or torsional type forces) to the region of the failure?

Honest to Pete, if I had the time and some drawings & weight info, I could go through it for you. But I'm up to my eyeballs here at work and would need a lot of info to really dig into it. The older crack could have a lot of bearing on things, as would any weight you had hanging off the rear hitch, etc. With the bucket up in the air, all the forces are eventualy reacted at the contact points with the ground (i.e. the tires). The bucket itself, and the load in it, exerts both direct and torsional type forces on it's mounts to the tractor, which in turn have to be dealt with by the tractor structure, and transmitted to the ground. I'm thinking mostly of the bending of the frame that is due to the bucket load wanting to lift the rear wheels off the ground. Anything hanging off the rear hitch would increase that bending somewhat.

But still it doesn't make much sense that a load of snow in the bucket could bust your block.

Best to you, I really feel bad that I can't be of more assistance. I'll try to look at that weld thing he referred to later.

 

[KrisHansen]

I wish I could help more but I just don't know the layout of everything in enough detail. If I can, I'll have a better look.

But just off the top of my head, when the previous poster said "welded up tight," I got concerned. A highly accomplished fellow we used to work with, who spent his life and published many papers on fatigue of metals, told me to always keep in mind that "failure is always a matter of too much constraint." Just imagine the old paper clip thing - you constrain it to move back and forth, back and forth, until it breaks.

In your case (and again, i'm only going by the previous post, not the particulars of what you did), is it possible you made a connection that could transmit more or different forces (especially bending or torsional type forces) to the region of the failure?

Honest to Pete, if I had the time and some drawings & weight info, I could go through it for you. But I'm up to my eyeballs here at work and would need a lot of info to really dig into it. The older crack could have a lot of bearing on things, as would any weight you had hanging off the rear hitch, etc. With the bucket up in the air, all the forces are eventualy reacted at the contact points with the ground (i.e. the tires). The bucket itself, and the load in it, exerts both direct and torsional type forces on it's mounts to the tractor, which in turn have to be dealt with by the tractor structure, and transmitted to the ground. I'm thinking mostly of the bending of the frame that is due to the bucket load wanting to lift the rear wheels off the ground. Anything hanging off the rear hitch would increase that bending somewhat.

But still it doesn't make much sense that a load of snow in the bucket could bust your block.

Best to you, I really feel bad that I can't be of more assistance. I'll try to look at that weld thing he referred to later.

It's just the 'hooks' on the end of the loader support arms that I tacked on, to help the bolts keep tight... All the hooks do as far as I can tell, is prevent the loader supports from lifting UP off of the front mounts.

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Oh. There's a difference to me between a tack weld and "welded up tight" as the latter implies a really stout weld connection. I have a look when i get a minute, I have to go for now. Bad weather!

 

[KrisHansen]

Oh. There's a difference to me between a tack weld and "welded up tight" as the latter implies a really stout weld connection. I have a look when i get a minute, I have to go for now. Bad weather!

Well, lets put it this way, the hooks are welded as if the bolts were incapible of loosening up. The loader is in no way welded to the mounts, or prevented from moving around a little. Truth be told, the 7308 moves around a LOT side to side.

 

[droy]

Kris, there are a lot of guys on TBN with Class II Boomers and both 7308 and 14LA loaders. Surely, if there was a danger, others would have the same problem. I just can't see that you are treating that tractor all that hard. You have a factory loader on the tractor it was designed for. You should not be able to overload the structure of that tractor. I think you had a defective block or your tractor was dropped sometime during delivery. I believe that if you buy the bare block and rebuild this tractor, you will see no more problems like this. For the price, I think that would be what I would do.

If you have to try and beef up the running gear, I guess you could. Like you, it would be very hard for me to have faith in that tractor again, but if this was a repeatable problem, surely we would hear more of it on TBN. Don't "rip your guts out" worrying about the tractor after the fix. You have enough problems just going through the grief of fixing your tractor without the added worry.

...my two cents.

Jinman beat me to the keyboard, I think that this incident is not a defect in the design, very possibly in the casting, assembly, or abuse of some sort;- (NOT trying to shift the blame, or beat up on you!)
I strongly feel if this were a design flaw, it would have surfaced not long after the Boomers hit the market. I put my TC33DA/14LA equipped toy through **** pushing downed trees, debris and such after hurricane Rita, and seriously doubt I would have any warranty if the NH people saw me in action. I know that others have abused this series also, and for problems such as yours not to be more commonplace convinces me that the cause is not the design.

I wish you all the luck, and a speedy, economical recovery.