Articulated Arm Cutters on Front End Loaders

[DIRTROAD]

Why not find an old used municipality side arm mower? They can be bought under $10 grand and then you don't have to switch implements.

 

[JWR]

You could add a counter weight to the opposite side.

Dave

I have thought about doing exactly that -- Good idea except that when the boom is in the center then the ballast puts a twist on the loader in the opposite direction of when the boom is swung out to the right. Probably the tractor and loader can stand the extra weight of the ballast (overall total) with no problem.

 

[JWR]

Why not find an old used municipality side arm mower? They can be bought under $10 grand and then you don't have to switch implements.

That's a really good solution all the way around if they can be had that cheap. Of course those things tend to be worn out badly, etc. Then a whole other tractor to maintain. Still a very good idea if I could find one. I have heard you need to be at the right place and time at auctions.

 

[JWR]

JWR,
Can you comment on your own original question, regarding your FEL mounted rotary cutter? How is it powered? Do you notice much stress on the FEL? How well does it work compared to a PTO version? How heavy is it, and how big of brush do you mow with it?

I'd love to see some pics of that setup.

Commin' right up. First to clarify my situation and answer your questions: My current configuartion is a MF 2660 with a DL250 loader and skid-steer adapter on the loader. I got a CID brand (also sold by several dealers and re-branded by Spartan if you web-search) 5' bushog-looking cutter that fits skid steers and also my rig. Hydraulic motor driven. It has a "std flow" or what some call low-flow hyd motor on it calling for 14-20 gpm. At best I can shove about 14 to 17 gpm flow to it (degraded by hoses, valves, etc.) The loader handles that cutter (1300 lbs) fine but that is all in-line and no intended side loads. That cutter does not tilt or move to the side and thus is near-useless for fence rows and overhanging branches other than just spots here and there. It also reaches only the 5' in front of the loader frame. On top of that, it bogs down too easily (because of my marginal flow from the tractor) ... AND most tractors (including the MF) have "one-track-mind" hydraulics. In other words any remote valve that is opened shuts off all others, including the loader. Net result is you cannot raise or tilt the loader while cutting. Moving the loader shuts down the mower which takes several seconds to spin back up to speed. So it does not cut as well as a PTO driven mower though it might if it had more flow to it. It does not seem to stress the loader all that much. The blades are 5/8" thick and cut in either rotation direction. These are heavy & not "tilted to raise up the grass" blades. The mower is intended for rather heavy material & would cut heavy brush (3") probably if driven well. I am convinced that if it were say 42" instead of 60" I could cut a lot better with it. The CID/Spartan swing-boom cutter is 42." I'm just concerned about twisting the loader frame when the boom is swung out to the side. Here are a couple of pics.

 

[McCaskey]

I fabricated an arm guide for my skidsteer to eliminate the sideways torque on the loader frame. Works great.
The last picture of the mower raised looks dangerous. I have 1/2 Lexan cab door to catch flying debris. Replaced the Lexan twice over the last 6 years.
Previous post: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/land-clearing-equipment/274707-skidsteer-arm-guides.html

 

[JWR]

I fabricated an arm guide for my skidsteer to eliminate the sideways torque on the loader frame. Works great.
The last picture of the mower raised looks dangerous. I have 1/2 Lexan cab door to catch flying debris. Replaced the Lexan twice over the last 6 years.
Previous post: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/land-clearing-equipment/274707-skidsteer-arm-guides.html

View attachment 340354 View attachment 340355 View attachment 340356

Very good. Using a skid-steer you would have frequent left-right forces (anytime the cutter is on the ground and you steer left or right.) That arm guide you made would take care of that. Different issue with the swing-boom cutter I was looking at. With the swing-boom going out 8' to the side, that creates a twist on the loader, not a left or right force. Probably not as much of a concern for the frame on a skid-steer as it would be for a front end loader frame on a tractor.

 

[JWR]

JWR,
Can you comment on your own original question, regarding your FEL mounted rotary cutter? How is it powered? Do you notice much stress on the FEL? How well does it work compared to a PTO version? How heavy is it, and how big of brush do you mow with it?

I'd love to see some pics of that setup.

Piston: This is follow up on last year's verbs. For some reason I did not see your questions last fall. The original FEL-mounted cutter was an EDI brand 5' cutter sold out of a dealer in Joppa near Baltimore. EDI calls themselves Spartan now and have a website at Spartan Equipment | Skid Steer Attachments, Mini Excavator Attachments The skid-steer type plates mounting is pretty universal (works with skid steers or tractors with skid steer adapter plates on the FEL.) The cutter is actually made by people in North Carolina that Spartan is not real happy to see people finding out about. See Looking for skid steer attachments? CID Attachments has USA Built Skid Steer Attachments for whatever you need! CID brand. Who knows who owns what these days. I used it on a MF2660 81 horse tractor with DL250 loader. It obviously put some stress on the loader but nothing severe. The biggest problems were 2 things: 1) The tractor lacked the hydraulic capacity to drive the cutter well. Even though the cutter was supposedly a "low-flow" compatible unit my 14 or 15 gpm was clearly not enough to do well. It would cut briars and twigs and light brush but bogged down way too easy in clusters of stuff 1 or 2" thick. 2) The second problem is that nearly ALL ordinary farm tractors in the under 100hp range have "one track mind hydraulics." In other words open center remotes chained together and fed by a single pump or source. Opening ANY valve shuts off all the others. One track mind. Result is that you cannot maneuver the cutter upward or tilt wise WHILE cutting. Every time you try to move the loader (other than gravity downward) the cutter blade stops. This amounts to an unsatisfactory mess unforseen by my dealer and not understood well by way too many people. The cutter itself was a beast with very heavy 3 bladed rotor and 5/8" thick blades capable of cutting clockwise or counterclockwise. Would cut some seriously heavy brush, small trees, 4" or thicker IF YOU COULD FEED IT THE HYD FLOW. Many skid steers have that kind of pump capacity and would be fearsome brush cutters. Farm tractors: Not so much. To shorten this tale, I bit the bullet last fall and bought an Orsi boom cutter (VMC, Matt Valkenburg in South Carolina.) It solves the main problems 2 ways. It has 2 pumps -- a big one for the cutter and a smaller one for moving the arms, tilting the cutter, etc. It works great and while only a 4' rotary cutter out on the end of a 17' boom it will not bog down and cuts heavy brush. The Orsi is PTO driven and 3pt mounted which bypasses all the front end loader issues and hydraulic flow issues. HOWEVER, taking it on and off (swapping with the normal 7' bush hog I use) is a considerable task and disadvantage.
I know I am getting long-winded here (and for some reason did not see your questions last fall!!) But to answer some of your questions: The FEL-mounted cutter was powered by hoses running from the remotes to the loader frame-mounted quick disconnects. I use those at other times for a 4-in-1 pinch bucket. The stress on the loader frame was not too bad but that EDI cutter was 1300lbs and put some jerks and whumps on the whole tractor when mounted out on the FEL frame. Just have to go slow. Again if you had adequate hydraulic flow you could cut darn near any brush with that cutter.
I'll try to attach some photos per your request. And another one:

 

[JWR]

Orsi River Compact 355/420. Goes on the three point, is powered by hydraulics and ran from it's own pump on the PTO. It's like a backhoe arm that goes off the right side of the tractor and has a good bit of counterweight built in. I have been shopping around and spoken with most of the manufacturers of these types of boom mowers, all tell me the horsepower requirements specified are spec'd high to ensure the buyers have a heavy enough tractor to stabilize any additional forces beyond typical operation.

Matt at ORSI told me they don't sell as many 355s (12' reach) and at the time he had one ready to go for $9500 and several 420s (14' reach) ready to go for $10,400

View attachment 339978View attachment 339979

I've been told the Bush Hog branded boom mower was the best in the business, but it's quite a bit more expensive and has higher requirements. Their comparable model would be RMB1445-1 if you're interested in it.

Downside, unless your rotary cutter runs off the drawbar and tractor hydraulics, you will lose the ability to trail your rotary with you. If that truly is a requirement, you may also look into "Tiger" branded mowers. They have many unique setups they can provide with side, rear, and front mounts, but their tractor requirements and prices are generally quite high.

Sysop and any others interested: What I finally did was to buy the Orsi 17' boom cutter from Matt in fall 2013 and began to use it spring 2014. This has been a huge learning experience. I'll just list a few things trying to keep it short here and then gladly respond to anyone interested in more details. Most of this applies to any rear-mount, 3pt, boom mower:

-The two-pump configuration gives great flexibility to move the cutter while cutting
-The Orsi with Matt's 4 rotary cutter on it will cut heavy limbs and does not bog down
- With an 81 hp fairly heavy tractor I would NOT want a longer than 17' arm. Staying out of trouble with it is OK but is demanding.
- Such boom cutters REQUIRE home brew fabricated support under the 3pt lift arms. You will damage your tractor without it ! On top of that, inadvertent triggering of draft control for your 3pt lift can be a major distraction. Not only the heavy load of the cutter but the geometry which multiplies forces is formidable.
- With a lot of effort I have the "bush hog to arm cutter swap" time down to just under 2 hours for one person. It is not quick & easy and the first time will take all afternoon.
I am very happy with the cutting ability and operation of the Orsi. Short of permanently modifying a tractor to run a mid-mount boom cutter (like the highway crews) this rear-mount pto-driven unit is the only effective way to go. Great tool for gaining ground on hard to reach brush and overhanging limbs. Forget the loader mounted cutters.

 

[bowslam]

JWR-- I just want to be sure I am interpreting this right . . . that it takes you ~2-hrs to hook up your Orsi rear mount boom mower each time you want to use it?
"With a lot of effort I have the "bush hog to arm cutter swap" time down to just under 2 hours for one person. It is not quick & easy and the first time will take all afternoon."

 

[JWR]

I'll try to clarify: I think my 2hr estimate was overly optimistic for mounting the rear mounted arm cutter on the tractor and getting everything adjusted and set up right. I have to admit it is a challenge for one person to get it swapped to or from the tractor. Either you leave it on the tractor (which precludes using rear attachments such as a bush hog) or else you face the laborious on/off process. For sure I can do the swap now in a small fraction of what it took me the first time but it is still a chore. I suppose I should admit that my age becomes a factor.

Coincidence that you ask ! My experience back in 2011-12 was with a VERY heavy FEL mounted brush cutter (hydraulic motor driven bush hog mounted on the FEL using skid-steer compatible SSQA hardware.) It was really designed for skid-steer operation with greater flow and no dependency between movement of the unit and motor flow. That failed because I lacked the hydraulic flow to drive the thing in any robust fashion -- e.g. it bogged down on realtively light brush way too easily. On top of that, it was connected via my RCV hydraulic line connections on the rear of the tractor for both pressure side and return. That meant 2 things: First every time you shut off the cutter it was a slam bang jerk sure to tear things up in the long run. Also, with open center hydraulics (which I call one track mind hydraulics) any time you try to move the loader frame upward or tilting you stop flow to the cutter and slam it to a stop, etc. Just a mess. The whole object was to have an extra cutter on the FEL that I could run concurrent with a rear bush hog and do things like cut overhanging limbs, briars down in gulleys where the tractor cannot go, sink hole spots, etc. as I came to them, NOT going back to the shop to swap equipment !!! The rear-mount Orsi articulated arm cutter does all that BUT precludes the bush hog.

Just this past week I decided to to try a newer FEL mounted cutter designed to be much better for TRACTOR use rather than skid steer use. It has a motor happy with 10 gpm instead of needing 17 or 18gpm. It is half the weight of the big earlier unit. It is setup with the return line to the sump rather than back through the RCV which means the motor free-wheels when power is shut off to it, keeps cutting some and does NOT slam to a stop. In effect this makes a TRACTOR driven FEL mounted cutter practical and useful instead of unsatisfactory.

This new unit is NOT for clearing big heavy brush in major land clearing operations. It is lighter and well suited to trimming overhanging branches, reaching out over ditches and sinkholes, etc. Sure it will cut brush but that's what the bush hog is for that I have on the rear. With both the rear 7ft bush hog and the FEL mounted smaller 44" cutter on at the same time you can handle a very wide variety of bushes, overhanging tree limbs, cut up close to fences, cut some brush clumps "from the top down" , etc.

I'm just getting first experience with the new lighter unit this past week. If it works as well as I expect, I will probably sell the rear-mounted Orsi boom arm cutter. I can provide photos of any of these things if wanted. May have already done so in this 'years old' thread (??)

Equipment info:

Orig heavy FEL mounted hog: weighed around 1000lbs, EDI brand 5ft , 3 bladed, (several brands on the market really made for skid steers)

New Lighter duty FEL mounted hog: weighs around 500 lbs, made for tractors NOT skid steers, 2 bladed, 44 inch cut, Lane Shark brand. See website.

Rear-mounted boom arm cutter: Orsi brand, made in Italy, sold via VMC in South Carolina, weighs around 3700lbs, PTO driven. Will cut darn near anything.