Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system.

   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #1  

Underwhere

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
20
Location
Freedom, NH
Tractor
BX25
I have a bx25 with a front mount snowblower.

It's been one of the most amazing attachments but it has its flaws.

I currently run an electric window motor which handles rotation. I blow fuses and it's not designed for the elements. During some storms it stops working intermittently and that's very inconvenient.

I run a 6 inch linear actuator for the deflector. It also runs into issues even though it is rated to be waterproof.

I have a 3rd function valve for my grapple which is useless during the winter.

My dream: all hyraulics
Control the lift/drop with my joystick (already exists)

Control chute rotation with left/right of joystick

Control deflector with grapply buttons open/close

Would anyone know how to accomplish this?

I know I need the hydraulic lines, a small piston for the deflector. I don't know what sort of motor to use for the chute rotation.

Do I need any sort of check valves or limiters?

Pics of what I currently have set upView attachment 715225
20200205_213759.jpg
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #2  
I use my same controls to operate my frame mounted v blade as my loader valve stays with the tractor with the loader removed. 3rd function operates the blade lift cylinder, and the 2 loader functions work the wings (L&R). I didn't add anything in terms of check valves a I don't see why you'd need anything either.
For chute rotation, a motor, chain and sprockets are nice with continuous rotation, but a simple cylinder and some cables may be a much simpler fab job.
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #3  
Linear actuator's are commonly rated as "IP 68 waterproof" but that's not really much. Seems they spray some water on them and call it certified. Having said that, I've used them for years and many versions of them while working in the snow. If properly installed (shaft down) they do reasonably well. The wire in this photo's center goes to a actuator. Its been in service on this implement for about 8 years today and it still goes. Its stored outside.
New drag working live l.jpg
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #4  
Most of the snow blowers I've seen have a cable and arm assembly to rotate the chute with a small cylinder. If you want to run it with a hydraulic motor you'll want an orbital motor. Char-lynn are my preference. Size the motor based on hydraulic flow and how fast you want the chute to move.
It's technically not ideal to run a motor off a cylinder valve, but it shouldn't be an issue for this application.
As to limits and check valves, they won't be. Required. Just make sure the travel of the cylinder is short enough that it can't break anything at either end of its stroke. Because attached to a flimsy snow blower chute, it WILL break something if the chute hits the end of travel.
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #5  
Deere man is spot on, if it were me the first thing I would do is get the GPM flow on the tractor. That is where I start with my customers. I use flow controls for the motor and a restrictor for the cylinder. If your shute binds up or freezes you will have scrap parts with out a adjustable crossover relief as the parts you have will not handle the added force of hydraulics, just a FYI. This will not be cheap to do correctly either. CJ
 
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   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #6  
Certainly adding the reliefs is a good idea.
It will not be a cheap project though.
For example just the char-lynn motor for the chute rotation, I retail those for around $600.
Without specing and pricing the entire system I'd figure on at least $1500 worth of parts to put it together. If you end up needing a custom cylinder for the chute that will add quite a bit as well.
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #7  
For the shute rotation I would just get a cheap knock off motor, They are in the $150 dollar range. The problem is some of them are not rated for the 1500 to 2k shaft seal like the Charlynn motors are. With a cylinder spool you may see that kind of back pressure, where a motor will not normally exceed a couple hundred psi. He will need a custom cyl as 2" bore is normally the smallest one available for cheap. That would destroy the shoot without stroke limiters. And very quick when it freezes up. I built a chain driven one with a 4k series charlynn for my 7' wide blower and it does not stop. The single 60 chain will go flying when something bad happens! Anyway I agree, he will have 1k+ to do it right IF he knows what he is doing.
 
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   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #8  
The one option for smaller bore cylinders off the shelf would be a replacement shank lift cylinder for an air seeder. On the bourgalt units they are around 1.25" bore by 6-8" stroke with about a 5/8 or 3/4" rod. Something like that is what I'd be inclined to use myself. I couldn't build myself a cylinder that small for what one of those costs off the shelf. IIRC they're only around $180 Canadian.

For the motors (and I may just be biased because I sell char-lynn and as such pay wholesale for my own projects) I really am partial to the name brand ones. I've had the no-name motors leak right out of the box before.
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #9  
A few years ago, I converted my Woods SS74 rear mount snow blower from manual to hydraulic. I used this kit from Woodmax:


Here's a link to the thread on how it was done:


The idea should work on a front mount blower as well.
 
   / Assistance setting up the perfect hydraulic system. #10  
Id be inclined to make chute rotation with a direct linkage and cylinder. No chains or cables or motors. Similar to how a rear blade angles. Might have to get a little more complex if you cannot design something with enough rotation for your linking. Look at a mini excavator bucket or even the loaders on some of our tractors for example. Same principal. And 180 degrees of rotation should be doable.

Chute deflector is a little simpler....but small cylinders are pricey. You can get 1" bore cylinders for ~150-200 each. So you'll have $300-$400 plus hoses and fittings and some hardware for brackets and such. I think $1000+ all in is a bit extreme.

Forget relief valves because you have to run a line back to tank for them to work. And normally crossover valves wont protect double acting cylinders both directions, as they are designed to protect the cylinder from external loads or forces being exerted on the cylinder.....but in this case you dont have that worry (like a plow angle cylinder and striking a curb). And in a way....they still wont protect the cylinder....but they may protect the blower. If you have a crossover and set both sides at a low enough pressure....like maybe 500psi on a 1" bore cylinder ~(400 pounds of force), the crossover relief should open way before tractor relief if the chute is stuck....and allow the fluid to flow back to the tractor via the other hydraulic hose as if you just had the two hoses looped together.

I dont know if crossover valves have internal check valves or not....since they are intended to protect high pressure spikes on the cylinder side and not too much pressure coming from the tractor side. May have to plumb them backwards to achieve desired results. And 1" cylinders are gonna move FAST. So flow restrictors are gonna be needed and I dont know it they will trick the crossover valve into opening. Maybe others have tried and worked out all the bugs on something similar, but I'd be inclined to get adjustable flow controls and a crossover valve with an adjustment range you think you can work with. Then fine tune it on the machine to get the desired speed and level of protection if something binds
 
 
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