Auger pilot holes

[Green_in_MI]

When I try to use my 12 in post hole digger all it will do it spin on our hard clay. All I get is a smooth round circle on the ground. Has anyone tried to drill a "pilot hole" first by using a small diameter auger and then going up in size? That's the way I drill in steel, works great, why not in clay?

 

[john_bud]

Green,

I do that, but I use a spade to manually start the hole. Swapping out the auger from 9 to 12 would be a pain in the, well you know!

john bud

 

[wroughtn_harv]

There's a thread in the "projects" thing about augers.

I live in north Texas. We have clay, real clay, harder than a bad girl's heart clay.

If you have a regular PTO auger from your local tractor supply you need to consider looking at a couple of the links I've provided in that thread.

Back in my youth I found out while digging post holes for fences that the pilot or fish tail on the auger being sharp and shaped right is extremely important in hard ground. I noticed we could not be making head way with three men working a Ground Hog two man auger when the tip was worn even just a little bit. But change out the fishtail and it was like we'd changed whole countys immediately.

What I use is the Pengo system. You can buy just the Pengo head and weld it to your existing auger or you can buy a whole new auger for your tractor. The beauty of the Pengo system is the parts that wear are replacable. There is also a variety of optional teeth and pilots for the different situations.

When I was in Nam we were setting telephone poles and using a military road digger truck. When it stopped working well one of the old guys welded a piece of grader blade on the auger and it made all the difference in the world. So you might consider doing just that if you have to.

Keep in mind you need to have the auger chiseling. So if the edge of the teeth are rounded or even wore plumb gone it's like drilling a hole with a drill. Even in wood it ain't gonna happen unless the bit is able to cut.

I have had it when the clay has sand in it that even a good bit wouldn't cut without substantial down pressure. Don, (centex) built this ingenious weight system for a three point PTO digger cause he was digging in rock. You might look at his pictures and use that concept too.

 

[bubenberg]

concur with harv on all points. the only thing i differ with him our clay is not red. visit one of the fencing companies in your area, they have catalogs for add ons to your auger

 

[MikePA]

Speaking of augers.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Is it normal to have to clean the last bit of augered earth out of the hole? When I get the post holes as deep as the auger will go, it doesn't bring all the dirt up out of the hole, so I have to use a hand post hole digger to get the last bit of dirt out.

 

[bubenberg]

since i went from a 12 inch to a 9 inch auger we less often have to hand dig. on trick is once the hole is deep enough speed up the auger as you rise it for the final time. that will bring most of the time more dirt up than you care . with this technique we than have to add some dirt to get the post to level.

good luck

 

[art]

All to often we look for the best price not the best piece to do a job. There is a wide assortment of augers that will dig holes in concrete, blacktop and fracturable rock. That should cover most of the USA to drill most anywhere. The bits do get more expensive and don't come on the low priced three point augers. They still will fit the most of them but you might half to pay a third of what you paid for the whole unit. They like most other drills will have some dirt fall back into the hole when you are done. Sharp bits are the key to drilling as well as the number of them.

 

[MikePA]

Thanks for the tip to speed up the auger to get the dirt out. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I will give that a try.

 

[MDNick]

Not sure if anyone here is a NASCAR fan, but did anyone see the race this weekend? 2 cars wrecked and one of them took out 100-150' of guard rail, on the first lap.

For the next hour they fixed guard rail, with the race red flagged. Showed them out there with a utility truck with an auger making holes. Then there was this poor dude with a manual post hole digger. Presumably crumming out the hole. BUT, on national TV there he is doin' it the manual way./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif Sucks to be him! The operator of the auger should have read TBN today to learn to speed up his auger on the way out. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

 

[wroughtn_harv]

<font color=blue>so I have to use a hand post hole digger to get the last bit of dirt out.</font color=blue>

Ah yes, life in the country. You don't have to get all the dirt out. But think about it. You have all this dirt in it's natural state of compaction except for this four or five inches in the bottom of the hole. You put in your post and then your concrete.

The following wet season the moisture gets all the way down to the area of that dirt you left uncompacted in the bottom of the hole. Moisture compacts it for you. The post drops two inches. Your fence just got real friendly. See how it waves?

 

[MikePA]

I hear ya, w-h /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif That's why I was cleaning out the bottom of the hole to make sure the post was sitting on something real solid.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Mike I'm sorry my reply was so tacky. But day and day out I see fences waving at me like I'm rich family. And the only reason they do so is because someone for reasons of their own didn't put them in right.

You won't be sorry for doing it right.

If you want you can come and help me out on a job. Four thousand feet of pipe barrier fence. Ten foot centers, three inch round tubing (two and a half inch pipe) and twenty inches high. I'm looking right now at putting a thousand to twelve hundred eighty pound sacks of TXI Maximizer through the mixer on this job. I imagine my knees and back are gonna be a tad sore after this one.

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>Mike I'm sorry my reply was so tacky.</font color=blue>
No problem, w-h, not tacky at all. This fence is enough work that I sure don't want to be doing it again any time soon. Ten years ago, we hired someone to put a fence in at the same time we were building our barn. It was a summer like we're having now, hot, humid and dry. He first tried pounding the posts (6" half round PT) in. That worked for 1 post. Then he drilled them. I don't know what he used (I was at work when he was putting them in), but some of the holes are not even 1 foot deep. They looked good until the first winter. So, I know what a wavy fence looks like....junk! Once we get our new pasture fenced in, I'll be replacing about 200' of these shallow planted posts.

<font color=blue>If you want you can come and help me out on a job.</font color=blue>
Pay my, and my tractor's, travel expenses and I'm there for minimum wage! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

What's TXI Maximizer?

BTW, I checked around for concrete. Lowe's sells 80 lb bags of Quickrete for the same price 84 Lumber sells 60 lb bags of their generic brand. The local TruValue hardware store is misnamed. They're 50% higher than 84 Lumber.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Here you go Mike. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.txi.com/product_news/maximizer/faq.htm>Maximizer</A>

What I like about it is a couple of things. First and foremost is it's easier to work with, less weight. And it's fifty five hundred psi versus sacrete's three thousand.

I use three cubic feet of concrete per hole. Sacrete is usually around three seventy five per cubic feet (one and a half eighty pound sacks to make a cubic foot). Concrete truck is usually two seventy five a cubic foot but if there's waiting time that dollar fifty a minute adds up real quick. So Maximizer at four dollars a cubic foot is the real deal in my book. It goes farther, is easier to work with, and stronger. All that could be better would be if it came with an automatic applicator.

The way we're going to set up is the nine cubic foot mixer will be on a stand. The trailer will pull in next to it with four to five pallets of maximizer. We will also have three fifty five gallon open end barrels there full of water.

Ten gallons of water and as many bags of maximizer the machine will hold, probably ten. Then that load goes into the concrete bucket on the JCB. The JCB hauls that load to where I'm setting posts and fills three contractor wheelbarrows to heaping. Then he's back to get another load. I'll pull out the concrete from the wheelbarrows as I need them. I'll be sighting the posts for line and height and filling in the concrete by myself. The last time we did it this way I almost killed the helper with him trying to keep up.

 

[MikePA]

Looks like Maximizer is product local to TX?

Also, you drill all the holes ahead of time, right?