B21 Clutch Problem?

[TomSeller]

I have a B21 with about 1600 hrs. I am the second owner but I don't know if any clutch issues on a b21. I only use the clutch when I start it up (safety interlock requires the clutch in). That and an occasional range shift, it has a HST after all. I wonder if yours was adjusted properly, I hope to never change mine given my usage.

 

[Dave M7040]

RobbieBones
Sent you a pm

Dave M7040

 

[RobbieBones]

Dave I responded. Thanks

 

[RobbieBones]

Dfkrug,

This was taken from one of your posts during your rebuild.

Question; Would that be the point I would be able to split the machine? So main frame stays together attached to mid-frame?



"Quote Originally Posted by yubby
Just out of curiousity, did you have to pull the front end off to get at the clutch?
One of the pix I posted shows removing the midframe from the clutch housing.
If you ONLY needed to get at the clutch, you could separate the tractor
only at the front of the midframe, instead of at the rear like I did. The clutch
housing on this tractor is sealed, BTW. I do not know how common it is with
tractors, but I have seen plenty of dry clutch housings that have drain holes
and vents. If this particular B21 had a drain hole, there is a good chance that
the small main seal leak would not have pooled up high enough to soak the
friction disk. Of course, that's just my opionion....I could be wrong."

 

[dfkrug]

Dfkrug,

This was taken from one of your posts during your rebuild.

Question; Would that be the point I would be able to split the machine? So main frame stays together attached to mid-frame?



"Quote Originally Posted by yubby
Just out of curiousity, did you have to pull the front end off to get at the clutch?
One of the pix I posted shows removing the midframe from the clutch housing.
If you ONLY needed to get at the clutch, you could separate the tractor
only at the front of the midframe, instead of at the rear like I did. The clutch
housing on this tractor is sealed, BTW. I do not know how common it is with
tractors, but I have seen plenty of dry clutch housings that have drain holes
and vents. If this particular B21 had a drain hole, there is a good chance that
the small main seal leak would not have pooled up high enough to soak the
friction disk. Of course, that's just my opionion....I could be wrong."

The temptation would be to remove the FEL, then the FOPS, then the 12 mainframe
bolts and split the tractor between the engine and bellhousing, thus NOT removing
the mainframe entirely. It looks like it could be done, but there are a lot of
hardlines to line up and bolts to be accessed.

In this photo you can see the 6 bolt holes of the mainframe just below the filter
bowl.

I do not recall what the service manual said WRT clutch (only) removal. I emphatically
believe in reading the SM first, but I included mine with the tractor, as it was
paper, not PDF.

 

[brain55]

I've done this repair in the field basically where the machine quit moving, I was able to move it with the backhoe to a slightly better/flatter spot. It took me about 24 hrs to disassemble the machine as needed, split it and reassemble it. It's not an amateur repair unless one is quite mechanically inclined and or has the time to learn as you go. Of course as I stated it was in the dirt, I used 1 1/8 plywood and floor jacks.

 

[dfkrug]

I've done this repair in the field basically where the machine quit moving, I was able to move it with the backhoe to a slightly better/flatter spot. It took me about 24 hrs to disassemble the machine as needed, split it and reassemble it.

So, you split the bellhousing only, after removing only the front 12 bolts on the mainframe? Otherwise
leaving the mainframe attached?

 

[TomSeller]

I've done this repair in the field basically where the machine quit moving, I was able to move it with the backhoe to a slightly better/flatter spot. It took me about 24 hrs to disassemble the machine as needed, split it and reassemble it. It's not an amateur repair unless one is quite mechanically inclined and or has the time to learn as you go. Of course as I stated it was in the dirt, I used 1 1/8 plywood and floor jacks.

What is different about the clutch in the B21 that it wouldn't allow it to limp in low range to flat ground? Most clutches start slipping gradually.

 

[Spanner]

What is different about the clutch in the B21 that it wouldn't allow it to limp in low range to flat ground? Most clutches start slipping gradually.

Oh, Robbie states back on Page 1 that it won't operate at all.

B21 1,100 hrs 2007. I'm the second owner purchased it with 600 or so hrs. Today while going up slight incline machine started screeching and grinding. Putting it in neutral the noise is not as bad, put the clutch down noise is much worse. Is there a way to diagnose that it's the clutch not the tranny? Forward and back pedal feels slightly funky but not sure if it's not because the clutch won't engage. Tractor will not move at all. Need help has its stuck on someone else's yard.

 

[TomSeller]

Oh, Robbie states back on Page 1 that it won't operate at all.

Yes, but I am curious why the clutch in the B21 (by at least 2 reports) ends up with a tractor that all of a sudden can't move without major mechanical noise. Most clutches start slipping and give you a chance to address it. Also, I don't understand why a clutch in a HST machine would wear out under normal use, it is simply a safety disconnect in my mind.

 

[RobbieBones]

Yes, but I am curious why the clutch in the B21 (by at least 2 reports) ends up with a tractor that all of a sudden can't move without major mechanical noise. Most clutches start slipping and give you a chance to address it. Also, I don't understand why a clutch in a HST machine would wear out under normal use, it is simply a safety disconnect in my mind.

I feel the same way. There is a slight chance I hit the front dif drive shaft on a small rock. But back tracking my path I don't think it was possible unless the rock popped up and then back down. Looking at the service manual it looks like the shaft is suppose to be on a slight downward angle to were it meet the other shaft. I have to take a better look but mine my be straight. Not sure have to look. But I doubt I hit any rock.
The hydraulics all work that's how I maneuvered the machine into a better location.

 

[dfkrug]

Yes, but I am curious why the clutch in the B21 (by at least 2 reports) ends up with a tractor that all of a sudden can't move without major mechanical noise. Most clutches start slipping and give you a chance to address it. Also, I don't understand why a clutch in a HST machine would wear out under normal use, it is simply a safety disconnect in my mind.

Yeah, the clutch on B21s if for safety interlock and PTO control. Also, range shifting is easier when pushing
the clutch in. On my B21 project, it seemed clear that the tractor was used for a while despite an oil-fouled slipping
clutch.

B21s are known for trans problems. Forcing the range shift lever when it resists shifting can break things
inside. I once found a local rental B21 with trans problems, but they wanted too much for it.

 

[brain55]

Yes, but I am curious why the clutch in the B21 (by at least 2 reports) ends up with a tractor that all of a sudden can't move without major mechanical noise. Most clutches start slipping and give you a chance to address it. Also, I don't understand why a clutch in a HST machine would wear out under normal use, it is simply a safety disconnect in my mind.

They have a tendency to wipe the splines out of the disc. Not just B21's but B's in general. The last one I did in the field had done the same and needed the input shaft replaced at the same time.

 

[TomSeller]

They have a tendency to wipe the splines out of the disc. Not just B21's but B's in general. The last one I did in the field had done the same and needed the input shaft replaced at the same time.

Got it. Thank you.

 

[Gator6x4]

Sounds like the poster has a transmission problem. Straight gear tractors and Shuttle Shift tractors have a clutch. The poster says the "FORWARD and REVERSE" pedal feels funky. Never seen a forward and reverse pedal on anything except hydro-stat transmissions.

Taken from post # one.:
Putting it in neutral the noise is not as bad, put the clutch down noise is much worse. Is there a way to diagnose that it's the clutch not the tranny?

Forward and back pedal feels slightly funky but not sure if it's not because the clutch won't engage

 

[TomSeller]

Sounds like the poster has a transmission problem. Straight gear tractors and Shuttle Shift tractors have a clutch. The poster says the "FORWARD and REVERSE" pedal feels funky. Never seen a forward and reverse pedal on anything except hydro-stat transmissions.

Taken from post # one.:
Putting it in neutral the noise is not as bad, put the clutch down noise is much worse. Is there a way to diagnose that it's the clutch not the tranny?

Forward and back pedal feels slightly funky but not sure if it's not because the clutch won't engage

B21s have a basic HST with fwd/rev pedals as well as a clutch.

Clutch is only intended (in my opinion) to relieve strain on range gears as well as a safety disconnect. It should not be used to engage movement.

 

[brain55]

HST's create a lot of shock load on the clutch splines, the pedal gets used as an on/off switch. There's no clutch slipping to reduce the load.

 

[dfkrug]

HST's create a lot of shock load on the clutch splines, the pedal gets used as an on/off
switch. There's no clutch slipping to reduce the load.

My B21 was indeed a bit abrupt in both FWD and REV. All 4 of my JD 955s were, too.
The latter used a flex-plate to absorb some of the shock.

But many newer HSTs, not so much. The Kubota HST+ on Grand Ls are excellent. Even my
old Kioti CK is quite smooth in transition from stopped to moving. No jerking.

I once had a McCormick GX50, my only servo-controlled HST, and that was the smoothest
yet. There was a bit of a delay and ramp-up in motion after you hit the go pedal. Very slick.

 

[TomSeller]

My B21 was indeed a bit abrupt in both FWD and REV. All 4 of my JD 955s were, too.
The latter used a flex-plate to absorb some of the shock.
.

Interesting, I guess I baby mine. I don't like abrupt.

 

[100 td]

Does anyone make a clutch plate with springs in it as a replacement? Would one be worth it?