B21 Clutch Problem?

[RobbieBones]

I'm back. Finally towed the tractor home apparently in neutral with tractor running. Once home I attempted to engage rear pro. I could only get it to spin very very very slowly with the clutch pedal pushed down. Clutch pedal up it does not move.

 

[RobbieBones]

I've done this repair in the field basically where the machine quit moving, I was able to move it with the backhoe to a slightly better/flatter spot. It took me about 24 hrs to disassemble the machine as needed, split it and reassemble it. It's not an amateur repair unless one is quite mechanically inclined and or has the time to learn as you go. Of course as I stated it was in the dirt, I used 1 1/8 plywood and floor jacks.

Brain55 did you have to take it apart per the manual or were you able to perform the repair separating it at the mid-frame?

 

[brain55]

I didn't use the manual, I just took it apart as needed per my experience, I did have to take it further apart since the input shaft needed to be replaced also since it was worn from the clutch hub.

 

[RobbieBones]

Is there a way of posting a video?

 

[RobbieBones]

Still looking for some more feedback on the possibility to seperate at the point where the main frame is bolted below the engine. It is doable according to kubota techs. It would appear the the main frame would have to drop slightly to allow the clutch house to clear the main frame. Question is can it drop while still being attached to mid frame or does it need to be separated in the rear from mid frame? Also when actually splitting how far apart do the halves have to be before the shaft actually disconnects???

The tractors hydraulics work. The screeching noise happens when the clutch is depressed and again when it is released at a certain point. Once fully released the screeching stops. I'm able to put it in gear (noise when clutch depressed) and take my foot of the clutch (no noise) and the tractor does not move. There is some chatter. PTO does not move either. Pulled the plug on the side of the clutch housing and put a magnetic tool retriever in there and come up with filings, no big pieces, bone dry in there. I’m guessing the splines on the clutch are destroyed. If so would the shaft need to be replaced at the same time??? Something I would want to do anyway, but asking to find out if the tractor needs to be broken down further to replace it, then maybe i should just follow the manual. Any feedback would be appriciated.

 

[100 td]

I'm wondering if the pilot bearing is the first to fail then causing plate/shaft alignment issues eventually chewing out the plate center completely.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-kubota-b21-clutch-replacement-i-100_4547-jpg

 

[100 td]

You've 99% likely got to split for a clutch job or more, but if you want to look a bit further into working out what is dead before you split, get underneath and have a look and see if the prop shaft between the clutch front shaft and HST is spinning. If it's not spinning, then your clutch, clutch shaft, front shaft, clutch gear or prop shaft coupling is toast. Make sure you look at the shaft going into the coupling to see if its spinning,(if the coupling is not). I suspect a clutch spline issue, but this may be worth a look. YMMV.

 

[RobbieBones]

I don’t see anything spinning. Anywhere

 

[100 td]

As mentioned, I suspect a clutch/shaft etc. The propeller shaft is the drive link between the clutch front shaft and the HST, you can see it under the tractor leaving the rear of the clutch housing going rearwards to the HST. If it doesn't turn then the HST or PTO won't turn.

 

[RobbieBones]

I’ll check again in the morning before I start breaking it down. Thanks.

 

[RobbieBones]

You've 99% likely got to split for a clutch job or more, but if you want to look a bit further into working out what is dead before you split, get underneath and have a look and see if the prop shaft between the clutch front shaft and HST is spinning. If it's not spinning, then your clutch, clutch shaft, front shaft, clutch gear or prop shaft coupling is toast. Make sure you look at the shaft going into the coupling to see if its spinning,(if the coupling is not). I suspect a clutch spline issue, but this may be worth a look. YMMV.

I was able to see the shaft and coupling turning.BUT it only turn slowly when I depress the clutch and hear the screeching noise. So I’m convinced it’s the splines either on the clutch and or shaft spline of the clutch shaft are toast.

 

[100 td]

If it's not spinning, then your clutch, clutch shaft, front shaft, clutch gear or prop shaft coupling is toast.

I was able to see the shaft and coupling turning.BUT it only turn slowly when I depress the clutch and hear the screeching noise. So I'm convinced it's the splines either on the clutch and or shaft spline of the clutch shaft are toast.

Well that's GOOD!
Because it says to me that your HST/transmission and drive shafts through to PTO are OK!(Here's hoping at least)

 

[RobbieBones]

Well the split is going fairly smooth. My only issue is removing the front propeller shaft. By mistake I removed the pins at both ends and cannot get it to release and drop. Also I found out that my front axle was basically bone dry. Appears I have a leaking seal on right side. I’ll address that once I know the tractor is functioning. I’ll address the cover to the propeller shaft as well.

Any tips to removing the front propeller shaft and at what time during take down its needs to be removed.

 

[dfkrug]

Any tips to removing the front propeller shaft and at what time during take down its
needs to be removed.

As I recall, you have to remove both roll pins on the drive shaft, then slide it over the splines
one way or the other to clear one end. Then you can separate.

 

[RobbieBones]

As I recall, you have to remove both roll pins on the drive shaft, then slide it over the splines
one way or the other to clear one end. Then you can separate.

I ended up having to cut the shield off of the shaft. It was bent and because there was no fluid in the axle and I guess inside the shield the spine on the shaft and coupling was somewhat rusty. Hope they still sell that shield. Just about the split the tractor after I make some supports. Thanks for getting back.

 

[RobbieBones]

Because the shield was bent I could not slide it in either direction to expose the coupling to slide it of the shaft.

 

[RobbieBones]

Splines in clutch totally gone!

 

[RobbieBones]

What should I look at and test to see if anything else was damaged and needs replacing?

 

[Spanner]

Standard clutch 'job' parts (Clutch plate, Pressure plate, Release bearing, Pilot bearing) and the splines on the trans input shaft look pretty beaten up - so you better think about replacing/repairing that. Maybe look at the input shaft bearing as well...
How's the flywheel facing?

Well done getting this far.

 

[100 td]

Can't quite see but looks like pilot bearing is toast? I'm wondering if it's the chicken or the egg, does the clutch spline slowly wear and then start to run out of centre and flog the pilot bearing, or does the pilot fail allowing the opposite to happen.
Given that this is a HST machine and the clutch is used rarely, meaning it's generally always engaged, I'd take a guess at the centre splines start to wear, and then each time the clutch is engaged it clamps a tiny bit out of centre causing out of balance and more wear and ultimate failure. I wonder if I can get a borescope in through the inspection hole and around the back of the pressure plate in front of the throwout to get a look. Somehow I doubt it?
Looks like the throwout bearing carrier has touched the pressure plate fingers, should be able to take the burrs off the end and reuse.