Buying Advice B3200 for a church

[davatk]

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A lot of issues and possibilities.

If you buy a B3200, I would buy a flail mower for the tractor not a finish mower as a flail mower with hammer knives and grass knives will work wonders for you and you will be able to mow when its the grass is wet for the following reasons;


1. a flail mower does not throw objects making missles out of them.
a. It mows down very heavy brush using hammer knives/grass knives with less effort and aid in quickly composting the brush.

b. the bush hog has all the same issues as a finish mower and less cutting edge length.

2. a flail mower is easier to maintain and does not require cleaning like a belly mount or rear mount finish mower unless you want to use a hose to wash under the hood-the grass is not thrown and packed into the deck like a finish mower is due to the blade design as it cuts and lifts the grass over the rotor and throws it down to the ground.




3. a flaill mower grass knife slices grass. a rotary tears the grass blades.

4. a flail mower has a rear roller which is the full width of the mower deck avoiding scalping.
a. the flail mower hood is up out of the way and will not twist due to its heavier construction.
b. the flail mower belts are easy to change and inspect.
c. the belly mount finish mower will collect grass and be harder to clean the grass out from under the guards covering the belts.



5. a flail mower has more cutting edge length in total than a finish mower no matter the width.

6. a flail mower has the ability to overseed and dethatch lawns and create a good seed bed with the overseeding/dethatching blades.

7. a flail mower has more cutting edge inches per foot and operates at a lower RPM speed than a finish mower.
a. the grass cut by a flail mower will compost faster and if you have taller grass you can either cut it slowly or cut it at a faster speed
and go over it second time to mulch it with less effort as a finish mower will simply pick the cuttings up and throw them and require more
time to try to mulch it which usually does not work.



8. a flail mowers knife blades are designed to fold back when a hidden object is struck and does not cause damage other than a nick in the cutting edge.
a. flail mower knives are less expensive than a finish mower blade.
b. the rotor on the flail mower is balanced and the blades simply work.
c. the finish mower blades need to be balanced and sharpened and are useless if damaged and bent.

9. a flail mower can interchange knives quickly with few tools- I dont need tools with mine anyway with compression spring hangers.
a. the knives are easy to sharpen with a wet grinder or a hand held flail mower grinder- the wet edge is better-I use a Wen wet well knife grinder-beautiful piece of machinery.

10. a flail mower knife can be flipped to use the other edge of the knife blade.

11. if you upgrade to a new tractor with more power you can avoid having to buy a new mower and keep the same mower.

12. we are on our second flail mower and have had it for 30 years with only main bearing replacements and the occasional V belt.

leonz

13. The Flail mower will cost you about double what a rotary cutter will cost.

 

[leonz]

UM No, not true. If he buys a Caroni from Agrisupply

in which they will ship it frieght free to the church door if

he makes a purchase via the Agrisupply home page.








leon

 

[davatk]

UM No, not true. If he buys a Caroni from Agrisupply

in which they will ship it frieght free to the church door if

he makes a purchase via the Agrisupply home page.


leon

Five foot Flail - $1549

59 FLAIL MOWER - Agri Supply

Five foot rotary cutter - I got a new price of $825 a few weeks back, so its around double at least in the research I did.

 

[ttstraw]

But and if i read the post on the flail mower right buying the flail would eliminate the need for a finish mower and a rough cut mower. I could have mis-read it though, if right then yes could save some $$.

 

[chrisargo]

Interesting discussion on the flail mower. I would certainly like to hear more. Some additional info on our current situation from me might prove helpful.

For the most part, the brush has been cut and the majority of the acreage we were planning on cutting with a rotary could probably be cut with a flail with no problem. About three acres is extremely flat and is along the road frontage of our property. Therefore, the need for a finish cut.

Additionally, the gentleman who has been cutting our property has done so with a 6' bushhog. He will continue to make that available to us. I haven't asked the following question yet but maybe someone here could answer it for me. Is a B3200 capable of running a 6' bushhog? If so, a flail might be a better choice as I would have access to the 6' bushhog when needed.

Would it be helpful for folks to see some photos/videos of the property in order to have a better idea of what we are considering?

 

[leonz]

My brother has an small agco 35 HP with a turbo and a 6 foot bush hog and it has problems in heavy brush like any tractor would because of the rotary cutter design speed and its massive blade weight. and it leaves a lot of uncut grass and brush at higher speeds of travel due to the horizontal rotors low speed which misses grass if the tractor is in a higher gear. where the flail mower will cut it all at once with 4 rows of flail knives if you have heavy brush you will need ot raise it a bit and go over it again at the lower ground height to cut it all and shred it to compost quickly.

The flail mowers with two rows of knives do not cut as nicely even with the high rotor speed of flail mowers as there simply fewer grass knives.

The hammer knive knife is ok but if they get dull they will tear grass like the flat finish mowers and really look awful in good turf even with a higher cut as all the same rules apply.

No need for photos the 5-6 foot flail size is fine and will work well as long as you buy a slip clutch PTO shaft the right length for the tractor (be doubly sure to ask what the proper length of the PTO shaft is(should be) when the three point hitch is raised to its maximium because you will bend it and possibly damage the PTO on the B3200 and buy the right length of spring type slip clutch PTO shaft from your dealer to try to smooth the the ruffled feathers a bit if you buy a Caroni from agrisupply using the web page-big discounts and free shipping.

You can buy overseeding blades to make grass seed grooves which reduce seed waste and aid in seed germanation and can also dethatch for new lawn or to reseed to get better turf by removing the grass knifes and mounting the overseeding blades alone to dethath and over seed in the same pass.


The land pride mowers which fly in kubota orange and other colors are an option but I believe they have fewer knives and a flail rotor with four rows of knives cuts very fine and very quickly with very lttle residue to be recut or compost and the on the flail rotor stays cleaner too as the hood over the rotor is not a catch all for grass and does not have any place for it to stick.

I thnk all the caronis have a front anti scalp roller option which saves your asphault from looking like a beaver was chewing on it if it is thick and you edge the asphault with a weed eater to keep the grass back and growing into the asphault edges and you will get a finsh mower cut that is better than a reel mower with less damage to the grass as well.

If your asphault is below the grass grade it wont be an issue but having the front anti scalping roller also avoids a quick dropping flail mower and the knife blades digging into a steep depression or narrow swale where the angle of attack which is the approach angle is too high and if you do not raise the mower it will allow the flail to fall foward and dig in. that is the only real worry and the extra weight helps with stability too-and the flail miower will not fall forward when disconnected from the three point hitch which is another plus when hooking it back up.


On a personal note I would NOT buy the flail mowers offered by northern tool as the chinese designed and built mowers are a death trap in my opinion after examining the mowers construction as it has thin steel and few structural welds which will allow it to rack and twist.

The american made small flail mower offered by them also troubles me for one very, very, very, important reason---

The knife blades are made from steel blanks which are drilled, bent and have a cutting edge ground into them where your
average flail mower blade being either a grass knife blade or overseeding flat edge blade or hammer knife of solid or hollow construction having been stamped and formed are stronger than these blades and have heat treated steel from what I remember of our matthews flail mower blades and a heat treated blade has serrated edges for cutting which are the gauge for the knifes life span and tell you when to discard them in the steel pile or recycling bins as they are too short for cutting any more


my thoughts anyway

 

[leonz]

But and if i read the post on the flail mower right buying the flail would eliminate the need for a finish mower and a rough cut mower. I could have mis-read it though, if right then yes could save some $$.

No you did not miss read the post it would eliminate the need for a finsh mower and a bush hog as all you will need are heavy knives if desired or extra grass knives and a sharpener.

potato, potatoe I have the same 30 year old flail mower that does everything and you can play golf on the turf if you want.

I dont have a nickle invested in what the man wants to do.

I just know what works and one accident with a finish mower or hog renders the entire exercise a moot point,
as the object that is hit and in turn is not captured within the housing it becomes a high speed projectle in which
it is only affected by its tare weight, shape, the speed of the blade which struck it, and its distance to the mower discharge point,
and the direct path it takes in exhausting the energy it recieved, and the resulting projectile speed it attains when it was impacted
with the mower blade and launched into the air.

If your lucky no one is nearby the point of acceleration in which the object has taken in flight

with more and more building and increased population a home or automobile is well within the objects path of flight
whereby possible injury or death or property damage will occur when the object impacts and or penetrates the person or persons,
home, tree, or vehicle within its path.

A faster blade tip speed is just that and the curve of the blade lifts the grass after it is cut and the blade curve aids in discharging the grass already cut.

Thats why the recycling mowers have small blades and large ones often on the same spindle where the smaller blade rotates faster within the closed housing to shred the grass clipping to fine much.


just look up my australian friends chat anf post about a rotary cutter he bought to try and returned it the same day a few minutes after he was shredding heavy brush because it impacted a bolt and the bolt traveled and traveled and went through a home and hit an interior wall and impaled itself, I am glad no one was injured. BYW he wanted a flail mower immediately as he traded his old flail mower in for it-the truck either brought the old mower back or immediately came back with a wide heavy flail mower for his tractors size.






You have examine all the issues because the flail mower is better, safer, and a stronger mower and he will have no issues with upgrading to a bigger tractor if he wants to but if it were me personally I would by a BX2660 with a roof for the ROPS for what he wants to do and get the backhoe package for the BX 2660 and save some money if he really really needs a backhoe.

It will take longer to mow but with a canopy you could mow in the rail if you want.

The nice thing about a flail mower with good knives is that you make good time
mowing and ideally if you are mowing in a continuos circle radiating outward it
eliminates stopping and turning and braking which takes time more fule and adds wear to
any tractor.

You only see the lawn while you are driving over while mowing and if you have lawn parties etc.

And a flail mower is unaffected by low tractor tire pressure affecting a belly mowers flexing over terrain

due to to the full width roller and or the antiscalp roller in front if it is ordered as and option.

The grass will look fine after you goe over it wil the full width roller anyway as the individual grass
blades will pop back up.




My brother bought a $7500.00 Bush Hog backhoe and he has used twice in three years for all his "projects" and nearly lost the tractor and hoe as it slid off the rear of his trailer when he pulled in to a grocery store parking lot to get some things because he forgot the cardinal rule "stop after two miles and recheck the binding straps and chains"


When I mow its easier with a flail mower and I use 2 gallons of gas one on the flail and one on the tow tractor.

People fail to realise how much mechanical energy is delivered to a belly mower or bush hog and lost through power transmission reduction and changed to driven power for the appliance using V belts and it consumes a considerable amount of power especially when you see people mounting 5 foot cutters on smaller compact utility tractors- I just shake my head

The high rotor speed allows the knives to cut the grass quickly and carry it over the rotor and throw it on the ground with very high speed and the creation of suction energy due to the knife path and its lifting arc created by the rotor.

this is also aided by paddles attached to the rotor in some flail mowers with hoppers which create additional suction to carry the grass over the rotor and back on the lawn which avoids plugging or directing the cut grass to the hopper with the very high cubic feet per minute of continuosly generated pressure gradient throwing the cut grass into the recieving hopper which is vented to allow the pressure gradient generated by the rotor paddles to exit and continue the generation of the same pressure gradient creating the suction to pull and throw the grass up and in the hopper until it can no longer be filled.

The 1000 RPM PTO was created to allow faster machine operating speeds for the attached or trailed implement but it requires greater energy to deliver the 1000 rpm.

Oh and that is why you see so many flail mower mounted on tractors mowing ditches on rural roads and highways because the flail mowers dont throw objects and make missles out of them.

 

[chrisargo]

I have done some additional shopping today with another dealer. I shared with them the same information as the previous dealer and had a similar recommendation. Today's recommendation was a L2800 with FEL and RFM. He quoted me a delivered price including tax and loaded tires for $18,500.

Based on the recent discussion on flail mowers, I am seriously considering dropping the RFM with the L2800 or the MMM if I go with the B3200 and the bushhog and simply going with the flail. The major brush (greater than 1 1/2") thick has already been cut down over the last few years. If we wanted to clear trails, etc through the uncleared 30 acres, the gentleman who has been maintaining the property for the last several years has offered his Massey Ferguson and 6' bushhog to do so.

I like the idea of the flail because of the versatility and finish. The price on the 5' Caroni is also less than the 5' RFM.

Does anyone have additional input?

 

[TripleR]

No you did not miss read the post it would eliminate the need for a finsh mower and a bush hog as all you will need are heavy knives if desired or extra grass knives and a sharpener.

potato, potatoe I have the same 30 year old flail mower that does everything and you can play golf on the turf if you want.

I dont have a nickle invested in what the man wants to do.

I just know what works and one accident with a finish mower or hog renders the entire exercise a moot point,
as the object that is hit and in turn is not captured within the housing it becomes a high speed projectle in which
it is only affected by its tare weight, shape, the speed of the blade which struck it, and its distance to the mower discharge point,
and the direct path it takes in exhausting the energy it recieved, and the resulting projectile speed it attains when it was impacted
with the mower blade and launched into the air.

If your lucky no one is nearby the point of acceleration in which the object has taken in flight

with more and more building and increased population a home or automobile is well within the objects path of flight
whereby possible injury or death or property damage will occur when the object impacts and or penetrates the person or persons,
home, tree, or vehicle within its path.

A faster blade tip speed is just that and the curve of the blade lifts the grass after it is cut and the blade curve aids in discharging the grass already cut.

Thats why the recycling mowers have small blades and large ones often on the same spindle where the smaller blade rotates faster within the closed housing to shred the grass clipping to fine much.

just look up my australian friends chat anf post about a rotary cutter he bought to try and returned it the same day a few minutes after he was shredding heavy brush because it impacted a bolt and the bolt traveled and traveled and went through a home and hit an interior wall and impaled itself, I am glad no one was injured. BYW he wanted a flail mower immediately as he traded his old flail mower in for it-the truck either brought the old mower back or immediately came back with a wide heavy flail mower for his tractors size.

You have examine all the issues because the flail mower is better, safer, and a stronger mower and he will have no issues with upgrading to a bigger tractor if he wants to but if it were me personally I would by a BX2660 with a roof for the ROPS for what he wants to do and get the backhoe package for the BX 2660 and save some money if he really really needs a backhoe.

It will take longer to mow but with a canopy you could mow in the rail if you want.

The nice thing about a flail mower with good knives is that you make good time
mowing and ideally if you are mowing in a continuos circle radiating outward it
eliminates stopping and turning and braking which takes time more fule and adds wear to
any tractor.

You only see the lawn while you are driving over while mowing and if you have lawn parties etc.

And a flail mower is unaffected by low tractor tire pressure affecting a belly mowers flexing over terrain

due to to the full width roller and or the antiscalp roller in front if it is ordered as and option.

The grass will look fine after you goe over it wil the full width roller anyway as the individual grass
blades will pop back up.

My brother bought a $7500.00 Bush Hog backhoe and he has used twice in three years for all his "projects" and nearly lost the tractor and hoe as it slid off the rear of his trailer when he pulled in to a grocery store parking lot to get some things because he forgot the cardinal rule "stop after two miles and recheck the binding straps and chains"

When I mow its easier with a flail mower and I use 2 gallons of gas one on the flail and one on the tow tractor.

People fail to realise how much mechanical energy is delivered to a belly mower or bush hog and lost through power transmission reduction and changed to driven power for the appliance using V belts and it consumes a considerable amount of power especially when you see people mounting 5 foot cutters on smaller compact utility tractors- I just shake my head

The high rotor speed allows the knives to cut the grass quickly and carry it over the rotor and throw it on the ground with very high speed and the creation of suction energy due to the knife path and its lifting arc created by the rotor.

this is also aided by paddles attached to the rotor in some flail mowers with hoppers which create additional suction to carry the grass over the rotor and back on the lawn which avoids plugging or directing the cut grass to the hopper with the very high cubic feet per minute of continuosly generated pressure gradient throwing the cut grass into the recieving hopper which is vented to allow the pressure gradient generated by the rotor paddles to exit and continue the generation of the same pressure gradient creating the suction to pull and throw the grass up and in the hopper until it can no longer be filled.

The 1000 RPM PTO was created to allow faster machine operating speeds for the attached or trailed implement but it requires greater energy to deliver the 1000 rpm.

Oh and that is why you see so many flail mower mounted on tractors mowing ditches on rural roads and highways because the flail mowers dont throw objects and make missles out of them.

Good grief Leonz, I know you like flail mowers, but you make it sound like anyone who would use one is a darned fool. If finish mowers and rotary cutters are so dangerous, I am amazed they haven't been outlawed. I have used both for over fifty years and not damaged anyone or anything. I have five rotary cutters, two RFM's and three MMM's, so I guess I am a real menace to society.

 

[2manyrocks]

The danger of a rotary cutter somewhat depends on what is in the brush being cut. I've seen a cutter throw a baseball sized rock 100 yards as fast as any pitcher I've ever seen. About once a year around here, someone gets run over by their tractor while bush hogging or the tractor flips over, etc.

If the ground being cut is all flat with no obstacles, that's one thing. If the ground has varying hills with unexpected drop offs, that's something else. Site conditions and operator experience are important factors to consider.