B3200 Vibration Update

[kuboman]

This is a photo of the remote joystick on my B3030. For my use it seems better than the new style on the B3200. Mine is the remote from the cab model.

That looks like a nice unit. When you come away from the loader is the valve with the upright or is it mounted on the tractor.

 

[Earl Ohl]

That looks like a nice unit. When you come away from the loader is the valve with the upright or is it mounted on the tractor.

The valve stays on the tractor.

 

[kuboman]

It is strange that Kubota does not offer that setup on the no cab models. Looks like a far superior setup but likely more expensive.

 

[Earl Ohl]

It is strange that Kubota does not offer that setup on the no cab models. Looks like a far superior setup but likely more expensive.

It's an option on the non-cabbed models. You have to pay extra for it.

 

[kuboman]

It is great to get some information. I wish I had found this sight before I bought mine. I asked the dealer about different control configurations on the 3030 and the info I got was there was one option and that was the control on the loader pedestal so I ended up with the 3200 for that reason and $$$$. All dealers are not created equal.

 

[LQPAPPY]

That is the correct answer as the joystick is mounted permanent to the fender. It is from the cab model. My dealer didn't really know much about this joystick but I provided pictures from this forum and paid I think less than $ 200. It was a year in Dec. from purchase so can't recall exactly. It has worked great for me and I just rolled up 70 hrs. on the B3030.

 

[quietguy]

I've had Kubota tractors for over 30 years now. Vibration was never an issure on the earlier units. I just purchased a new B3200 and the vibration and noise are unacceptable.
I'm a consulting engineer for noise and vibration. I get to measure the vibration on many different engine powered machines, many of which use Kubota engines. My professional opinion is that this vibration is excessive.
I have a parts list for the so called "fix" and I don't see how it can "fix" the problem. Maybe it will reduce the vibration on the feet but that isn't the problem. It's the overall vibration on the entire machine.
Without doing an engineering study, I would have to say that the engine is not a smooth as it could be. I don't know if it has internal balance shafts or not but it's hard mounted to the frame. It does not have vibration isolators, as are the engines in the BX series.
I will be returning my B3200 to the dealer.

 

[kuboman]

I've had Kubota tractors for over 30 years now. Vibration was never an issure on the earlier units. I just purchased a new B3200 and the vibration and noise are unacceptable.
I'm a consulting engineer for noise and vibration. I get to measure the vibration on many different engine powered machines, many of which use Kubota engines. My professional opinion is that this vibration is excessive.
I have a parts list for the so called "fix" and I don't see how it can "fix" the problem. Maybe it will reduce the vibration on the feet but that isn't the problem. It's the overall vibration on the entire machine.
Without doing an engineering study, I would have to say that the engine is not a smooth as it could be. I don't know if it has internal balance shafts or not but it's hard mounted to the frame. It does not have vibration isolators, as are the engines in the BX series.
I will be returning my B3200 to the dealer.

I read in another forum that they can adjust the timing to relieve some of the vibration. They apparently adjusted the timing for emissions which made the vibration worse. I am looking into this but have yet to get any hard info. It does make sense though.
The B3030 uses the same engine but it is tuned a little different for the lower hp, and they do not have a vibration problem.

 

[keyman1808]

This is a direct quote from another online forum member with the same problem and what the solution turned out to be.

"I’m a happy owner of a new B3200 with information for those with concerns over the vibration issue that some have written about. First, when I first learned about the B3200 I compared it to the 2720 and test drove both a number of times and read reviews as much as I could. I purchased the B3200 because of the slightly larger size, the 3 speed transmission, 4 cylinder engine, and because the areas Kubota dealer (Blazey’s, Palmyra NY) was service oriented and the local JD dealer was not.
When the B3200 came to my home it had a vibration that I found unbearable and I returned it to the dealer prepared to trade it in on another model. However, by installing rubber mounts on the deck and resetting the timing to the required specs for this engine, the vibration issue was solved. Apparently when these 4 cylinder engines leave the factory, the timing is set to accommodate new omission standards and not set for optimal performance or to their design specs. These two steps solved the problem and I’m very pleased with my B3200 with just 10 hours on it now.
Anyway, for those looking at the B3200 before you pass on it because of vibrations, ask the dealer to do the two things put rubber mounts on the deck and adjust the timing before you make a decision. Because these threads were of help to me during my purchase decision, I could not help but share my B3200 experience with the rest of you. "

Let us know how you make out seems like it worked for this guy

 

[Monster5601]

The B3030 uses the same engine but it is tuned a little different for the lower hp, and they do not have a vibration problem.

I think they are the same horsepower, just rated at different RPMs.

ENGINE B3030 B3200
Engine Type E-TVCS E-TVCS
Engine Make Kubota Kubota
Engine Model V1505-E3-D21 V1505-E3-D24
Fuel Type Diesel Diesel
Bore x Stroke 3.1 x 3.1 in. 3.1 x 3.1 in.
Cylinders 4 4
Gross Horsepower 30 hp @ 2,600 rpm 32 hp @ 2,700 rpm

 

[Verticaltrx]

As far as I can tell the actual power output of the B3200, B3030 and B7800 are all the same, Kubota just plays with the numbers a little for marketing. (rating the same engine at a higher RPM shows more power on paper, just math.)

As for the timing, I would be interested to find out what the timing specs for a B7800 are, re-adjust the B3200 back to that and it should be right. The factory timing spec for the B3200 is 16 to 18 degrees before TDC. Maybe someone with a B7800 shop manual could post what the specs for that tractor are.

The timing is changed by adding or removing shims under the injection pump for those who were wondering.

 

[funwithahoe]

I have a B3200 and haven't found the vibrating to be as bad as some posters but it is there especially over 2000 RPM's.

Valve adjusting sounds like something I could royally screw up. Anyone out there who is only a light duty weekend mechanic successfully do it??? I would guess it involves some engine disassembly??

 

[Verticaltrx]

I have a B3200 and haven't found the vibrating to be as bad as some posters but it is there especially over 2000 RPM's.

Valve adjusting sounds like something I could royally screw up. Anyone out there who is only a light duty weekend mechanic successfully do it??? I would guess it involves some engine disassembly??

What we are discussing is fuel timing, doesn't have anything to do with the valves. For someone with mechanical experience it's not a hard task, I haven't done it yet, I'm waiting to hear from some B7800 owners to see what the timing spec is on those tractors before I change anything.

 

[leonz]

Yes sir, it is definetly the fuel delivery rate which
directly effects the number of combustion cycles
per second on these and other small engines.

The larger fuel delivery volume created by the
delivery adjustment screw on some engines-
(which are typically sealed with a lead seal and wire
to make the bureaucracy happy) and the end user miserable
can be readjusted to allow more fuel delivery which allows
faster combustion cycles and smoother power delivery to
the engine and smoothes out the speed of the combustion cycle
which becomes more even

The vibration is much more noticed and rediculous because of

the emmisions standards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fewer combustion cycles per second which are noticed and much more pronounced because the fuel is being pumped at a slower volume and the pistons are moving slower and the power delivered is much more pronounced in delivery which transmits its actual force much more violently to the engine frame, operators station, transmission, steering wheel, seat, foot pedals and to alas the operators.


It is the old two lung John Deere engine scenario with the pony motors and kerosene as they are capable of lots of power delivery and at low speeds they do bang very hard when the combustion portion of the cycle occurs.

If the 3 and 4 cylinder smaller diesels were water cooled 2 cycle diesels, the engines would have to run faster, the vibration would not be there,
the transmissions and power take offs units would still have plenty of power,
and the kubota corporation would sell more tractors,


HINT, HINT, HINT, HINT, payment gladly accepted in the form of:

1 current 2010 BX2660 or left over crated B7800, BX2350, BX1850
front end loader, with standard bucket, loader mounted valve system
R4 tires-rears loaded with windsheild washer fluid.
high output alternator
seat upgrade, upgraded fenders and or hood
rear weight box
dual rear remotes
third valve
foldable ROPS
rear work light

Or:

A tax deductable donation of useable items for the State of Georgia ASPCA and or the local SPCA chapters and to promote the no kill shelter concept which works as we have one here in New York State.


The latter being more obtainable and beneficial to the ASPCA State of Georgia Chapter; Go Bulldogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My thoughts anyway :thumbsup::drool:

 

[funwithahoe]

Yes sir, it is definetly the fuel delivery rate which
directly effects the number of combustion cycles
per second on these and other small engines.

The larger fuel delivery volume created by the
delivery adjustment screw on some engines-
(which are typically sealed with a lead seal and wire
to make the bureaucracy happy) and the end user miserable
can be readjusted to allow more fuel delivery which allows
faster combustion cycles and smoother power delivery to
the engine and smoothes out the speed of the combustion cycle
which becomes more even

The vibration is much more noticed and rediculous because of

the emmisions standards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fewer combustion cycles per second which are noticed and much more pronounced because the fuel is being pumped at a slower volume and the pistons are moving slower and the power delivered is much more pronounced in delivery which transmits its actual force much more violently to the engine frame, operators station, transmission, steering wheel, seat, foot pedals and to alas the operators.


It is the old two lung John Deere engine scenario with the pony motors and kerosene as they are capable of lots of power delivery and at low speeds they do bang very hard when the combustion portion of the cycle occurs.

If the 3 and 4 cylinder smaller diesels were water cooled 2 cycle diesels, the engines would have to run faster, the vibration would not be there,
the transmissions and power take offs units would still have plenty of power,
and the kubota corporation would sell more tractors,


HINT, HINT, HINT, HINT, payment gladly accepted in the form of:

1 current 2010 BX2660 or left over crated B7800, BX2350, BX1850
front end loader, with standard bucket, loader mounted valve system
R4 tires-rears loaded with windsheild washer fluid.
high output alternator
seat upgrade, upgraded fenders and or hood
rear weight box
dual rear remotes
third valve
foldable ROPS
rear work light

Or:

A tax deductable donation of useable items for the State of Georgia ASPCA and or the local SPCA chapters and to promote the no kill shelter concept which works as we have one here in New York State.


The latter being more obtainable and beneficial to the ASPCA State of Georgia Chapter; Go Bulldogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My thoughts anyway :thumbsup::drool:

So as I adjust the fuel the engine will run faster? Will that help since I need the engine to be run at a constant rate for the PTO??:confused2::confused2:

 

[General Lee]

I have a B3200 and haven't found the vibrating to be as bad as some posters but it is there especially over 2000 RPM's.

Valve adjusting sounds like something I could royally screw up. Anyone out there who is only a light duty weekend mechanic successfully do it??? I would guess it involves some engine disassembly??

If all the *stuff on the tractor* wouldn't rattle we probably wouldn't notice it as much. The things that rattle the most on my tractor and drives me nuts are the plastic housings that cover the gear/pto selector knobs. I've tried tightening them, adding rubber, etc and can't get them to stop.

I'm not using the PTO a whole lot so I don't go over 2000 rpm's unless I'm mowing. I operate generally in the 1800-2000 range. But these plastic housings rattle no matter where the throttle is. If I'm grading the gravel driveway and happen to use the rpm's over 2000, coupled with the rattling/shaking rake or blade I don't notice the abnormal vibration in the motor.

 

[hawkeye08]

This is a direct quote from another online forum member with the same problem and what the solution turned out to be.

"I知 a happy owner of a new B3200 with information for those with concerns over the vibration issue that some have written about. First, when I first learned about the B3200 I compared it to the 2720 and test drove both a number of times and read reviews as much as I could. I purchased the B3200 because of the slightly larger size, the 3 speed transmission, 4 cylinder engine, and because the areas Kubota dealer (Blazey痴, Palmyra NY) was service oriented and the local JD dealer was not.
When the B3200 came to my home it had a vibration that I found unbearable and I returned it to the dealer prepared to trade it in on another model. However, by installing rubber mounts on the deck and resetting the timing to the required specs for this engine, the vibration issue was solved. Apparently when these 4 cylinder engines leave the factory, the timing is set to accommodate new omission standards and not set for optimal performance or to their design specs. These two steps solved the problem and I知 very pleased with my B3200 with just 10 hours on it now.
Anyway, for those looking at the B3200 before you pass on it because of vibrations, ask the dealer to do the two things put rubber mounts on the deck and adjust the timing before you make a decision. Because these threads were of help to me during my purchase decision, I could not help but share my B3200 experience with the rest of you. "

Let us know how you make out seems like it worked for this guy

Yes sir, it is definetly the fuel delivery rate which
directly effects the number of combustion cycles
per second on these and other small engines.

The larger fuel delivery volume created by the
delivery adjustment screw on some engines-
(which are typically sealed with a lead seal and wire
to make the bureaucracy happy) and the end user miserable
can be readjusted to allow more fuel delivery which allows
faster combustion cycles and smoother power delivery to
the engine and smoothes out the speed of the combustion cycle
which becomes more even :

Leonz, curious if you have this particular tractor and solved the vibration by turning up the volume of fuel? The poster above referenced another person that says he has one and the dealer installed rubber mounts and adjusted the timing on the engine to solve the vibration.

You say it is the fuel delivery volume and the other says it is timing. These are two different things in my book (maybe I have the wrong book?). Timing in diesel engine is when the fuel is injected, volume is how much is injected. What I am missing?

 

[CurtisG]

I wish I had found this post much sooner because a few months back I purchased a B3300SU with the 4 cylinder engine and after 2 months and 29 hrs on it I couldn't stand the vibration at PTO speeds, but Kubota (Central Division in Fort Worth) would not acknowledge that they had a vibration problem. So after being told by the division rep. it would be strictly at my cost if I wanted to trade it back in on a tractor with a 3 cyl engine, which I reluctantly did because of the price difference, I am now very satisfied and have no noticeable vibration at any speed on a L2800HST. I was very disappointed in Kubota's customer satisfaction from this division. My dealer tried to get a price concession but was refused. I will continue to tell any one who is interested in this series of tractor with the 4 cyl engine to be sure and run it at PTO speeds before making a deal, I just wish I had. I'm glad to find this post and will tell my salesman he should let the division rep read some of the post concerning vibration. I also found some other post about vibration on these engines.

Sorry for the rant but now I feel better

Curt
L2800HST XtraPower

 

[Verticaltrx]

Leonz, curious if you have this particular tractor and solved the vibration by turning up the volume of fuel? The poster above referenced another person that says he has one and the dealer installed rubber mounts and adjusted the timing on the engine to solve the vibration.

You say it is the fuel delivery volume and the other says it is timing. These are two different things in my book (maybe I have the wrong book?). Timing in diesel engine is when the fuel is injected, volume is how much is injected. What I am missing?

I'm pretty sure timing is what is causing the problem. I don't think they changed the fuel delivery rate, as the power numbers are basically the same as they were on the older models. They would only increase the fuel if they were trying to make more power, but this would also increase emissions. As I mentioned before, the hp on the B3200/3300 is actually the same as the B3030 and B7800, they just rated it at a higher RPM to make it look like it has more power.

 

[leonz]

tractor vibration issues

Leonz, curious if you have this particular tractor and solved the vibration by turning up the volume of fuel? The poster above referenced another person that says he has one and the dealer installed rubber mounts and adjusted the timing on the engine to solve the vibration.

You say it is the fuel delivery volume and the other says it is timing. These are two different things in my book (maybe I have the wrong book?). Timing in diesel engine is when the fuel is injected, volume is how much is injected. What I am missing?

The cylinder is compressing the diesel fuel being pumped into the head of the cylinder and exploding at the point it can no longer compress it any further and bang the power and exhaust cycle are done.


The timing is the timing is the timing the engine will fire in the order deterimined by the manufacturer fro that engine.

If you change the timing it will not burn in the order it was designed to fire in with relation to the cranks design and position of the lobes.


I ran into this with deisels of all manufacture while I was a deisel and hydraulics mechanic at the mine where I worked previously.

As long as the timing is properly set the firing order will be maintained and the faster the fuel is pumped into the cylinders, the faster the pistons will compress the fuel to the point it explodes that much faster.

everything works in unison and if the engine and valve timing which are intermeshed have to work as fast as the fuel is delivered to the cylinders

adding the fix all of mounting plates under the platform is adding mass to cancel the vibration somewhat and a quick fix to offer a fix for the customer when it is not required by simply adjusting the fuel volume delivered per rotation of the injection pump.

the broken fenders and cracked platforms are a result of most of this issue in my opinion



I hope to buy a new kubota in the near future FWIW as my wheel horse has a second hydrotransmission and is 19 years old

The quick fix of adding mass to th eplatform in plate steel adds weight and cancels out some of the vibration and their quick fix solution is no solution.

I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain by telling you this about these diesels or any other diesel and the physics is the same no matter the engine
brand.


The 3 and 4 cylinders can be smoothed out by readjusting the fuel delvery rate and its commonly done.

adjusting the valves and or timing will not solve this problem because the engine is balanced and in the proper firing order; and as I have mentioned in previous postings these motors are used in rice combines, rice planters,
portable light towers, pumps, generators, small construction machienry and fishing boats and they sold all over the world with fewer emmisions restrictions and smoother operation as the fuel delivery rate is increased.


I will post my screener story to fully expose this issue for you to fully illustrate it .