Back dragging: how aggressive?

[IndyIan]

I did a bunch more work on this project today. I guess I thought the high 90s made for nice working conditions or something. Anyway, what you say is about where I am lately, mostly. Or occasionally I'll lift the wheels but make the angle more gradual.

I don't try to use tractor weight for back dragging, to often, just with like dump truck delivered loose gravel to smear it out thinner if I need to. Usually I float the loader and change the angle of the bucket for more scraping or spreading action. But I guess my loader and bucket is ~1000-1200lbs so it seems to move loose stuff well enough in float mode.

 

[NEPA guy]

I've back dragged with the Pirannah tooth bar installed, front wheels off ground grading loosened dirt and stone, no problems, I just go slow. 500 hours

 

[Surshot]

Very, very limited, I use back dragging on loose dirt that I dump from my bucket, only, and I do not lift the front wheels at all. I pretty much use the procedure for grading slopes away from walkways and foundations that I have back filled. In fields or open areas I use a cutter head disk and landscape rake.
Trying to use tools for jobs they were not designed for, will get you in big trouble or into big bills.

 

[JWR]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

It varies a lot from tractor to tractor. Using the bucket as a dozer blade while in reverse is worst case, rarely justified and most likely to cause grief. As Messick's said the cylinders are most vulnerable when fully extended. If it looks really tough on your machine you are probably doing something you shouldn't.

Examples may help. I have posted on some other thread a year or more ago that my own far worst case was preparing a building site. The soil was hard as a rock. hard dried clay. I had the bucket tip sharply down digging into the hardpack with the weight of the front half of the tractor on it and in reverse. Max power, lowest gear, worst possible angle. After 5 or 6 attempts the steel hydraulic line on the side of the FEL frame burst wide open due to excessive pressure. At least on mine the weak link was my poor judgement. The next weakest link was the hydraulic lines. And the cylinders did not seem to care. A box scraper with tangs was the right tool, not the loader.
By and large unless you do something really stupid like my example you really need not worry.

My worst example above was with a 9000 lb 81 horse tractor. In the smaller subcompact tractors like your WM25 I doubt that your hydraulic cylinders are in any danger regardless of most misbehavior. The tractor does not have the weight to do hyd cylinder damage in my view.

 

[Rob REECE]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

I would use a box blade instead.

 

[Texbest]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

If the piston is visible you are toeing the line. It's already been said but compact tractors are not skid steers.

You bought that box blade for a reason...use it. Using a box blade correctly is a lost art, but it's one you can learn with some trial and error practice. Box blades are cheap FEL's are not. Good luck with the greenhouse!!!

 

[crashz]

I have a lot of hours on many types of loaders. The bigger, the stronger and better to handle abuse. Our little tractors are not D6 dozers or Cat 980's as much as we want them to be.

 

[JWR]

I would use a box blade instead.

Yes, but his WM25 won't pull much of a boxblade. Might not be worth even trying to use one. Deep digging tangs on a box blade would simply anchor that tractor.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I can see doing that once but 40 years? Wouldn't a box blade or land plane do the job easier and better? Certainly the cost is justifiable over that period.

I do the major grading work with a landscape rake with blade & gauge wheels. I back drag the smaller washouts, particularly on the slope sections.

There's work to be done after every significant rainstorm. I hate to remove the mower and put on the rake for the small jobs.

 

[Dan Tabler]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

I have a 2025R that I back drag with constantly. Never had a problem.

 

[Goober2]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

I too tend to back drag a lot, but I do it not with the bucket other that a slight angle less that level, and then I do it more with my FEL in the float position. That way the only down pressure is from the weight of the bucket alone.

 

[beenthere]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

You or anyone else doesn't know where that line is drawn. Keep doing what you are doing, and hope you do not find out.

 

[Black Dog 2]

I did a lot of back dragging today, smoothing up a site for a new greenhouse. But I'm always cautious because the cylinders are so extended in dump direction, and would be prone to buckling.

HOW conservative, though? Getting the bottom of the bucket vertical and dragging in a moderate gear with the front wheels held up by the bucket, well, that is very aggressive, I suppose asking for trouble.

But putting the bottom of the bucket, say, 20 or 30 degrees from vertical, and dragging in the lowest gear, is that too aggressive?

Where do you draw the line?

Get a box blade

 

[SmallChange]

You bought that box blade for a reason...use it.

A box blade would have been way better for this job, but I don't have one! And I did consider getting one just for this, but couldn't convince myself it was a good move, considering the cost. If I ever do another job that could use a box blade, I'll regret that.

 

[JWR]

A box blade would have been way better for this job, but I don't have one! And I did consider getting one just for this, but couldn't convince myself it was a good move, considering the cost. If I ever do another job that could use a box blade, I'll regret that.

No, some jobs should be hired out. And some jobs will not lend themselves to doing them with your subcompact tractor. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[oosik]

Why risk damage. I reverse my 1000# Rhino rear blade 180 degrees and lower to the ground. Then I go like smoke and oakem.