Backhoe Side to Side -- Stuck?

[GeneSimm7]

I had something similar happen with my FEL and it turned out to be low in Hyd fluid.

 

[ppopsu01]

Another thought is , could the hose be breaking down internally, allowing flow in one direction, but not to return. Kind of like a check valve. Ive seen this happen on brake hoses, causes the brakes to stay on and not release the caliper.

 

[rScotty]

Any luck with the trick described above, or other cures? I have a L39 that does the same thing, except the that powered right swing has not returned.

Apparently there are several different symptoms that can go wrong with the swing circuit. The swing circuit relief valve (there are 2) is the most common suspect.
Replacing the swing reliefs is at most a half hour job.
Having a spare swing releif valve for the older TLBs - L39,L45,M59 - makes sense.

 

[Old Shas]

My mystery is solved!

I could swing the boom to the left but not to the right. If the tractor was on a slop leaning right, the boom would slowly move to the right indicating the pressure relief valve was open. Many people have suggested shaking the backhoe with it tilted the other way using the outriggers fixed their problem which would apparently unstick the pressure relief valve. I tried that for 10 minutes and high RPM's, low RPM's, using the outriggers to shake the tractor left and right, shaking the boom while trying to swing it and nothing I did fixed the problem.

In my research, I found the pressure relief valve is a pilot style where this is a small hole that left the system pressure bypass the pressure relief valve and put pressure on the backside of the valve forcing it shut. There is a small lightweight spring that adds a few pounds of pressure to the system pressure helping keep the main pressure relieve valve closed. When the pressure becomes out of balance between the flow and the relief side, ie more pressure on the flow side than on the relief side it overcomes the power of the spring and opens the main relief valve. That way a small spring con control a large amount of pressure and flow. One video I found likened it to a 12v relay opening and closing a 480v circuit.

On my M59 BT1200 backhoe, the control valve spool was moving fine. I removed the plate and top shroud around the backhoe hydraulic control valve. In tracing the hydraulic hoses, I found the topside of the valve was flow to move the boom left (from the seat in the tractor) and the bottom side of the valve would have flow to move the boom right. So I knew I had to remove the top pressure relief valve. I made sure there was no pressure in the system by putting the tractor on the ground and locking the boom in the up position. I took an adjustable wrench and removed the top pressure relief valve. They use an o-ring to seal it so it was not hard to remove.

I compared the pressure relief valve (7K521-63712 per Kubota Tractor BT1200/BT1200V B21001 Control Valve [Component Parts] ## [Bt1200] | Kubota Tractor) and compared it to the new/spare boom pressure relief valve (7K521-63732) I had. The pilot has a pin at the bottom with a lightweight spring that keeps it closed and on the valve I removed, the pin was stuck open. The pin on the spare valve moved freely and it only took a small amount of pressure/pushing to open it.

On another thread, a person said Kubota told them the pressure relief valve was not serviceable. If so, shame on Kubota. I took off the assembly that holds the pin in place and sure enough inside was the main valve (looked like a cup) which was held in place by a larger spring, the pin which went through the center of the cup which was also held in place with a smaller spring. In my case, for some reason, the small spring had jumped the shoulder on the pin that would hold the pin closed and therefore was no longer pushing on the pin. Since the pin was stuck open, the main valve (cup w/ larger spring) would open and all of the system pressure would flow back to tank.

I was able to remove the small spring and reseat it on the pin shoulder and reassemble the pressure relief valve. Now the pin moves freely and I could easily push it the circuit open with my finger just like the new spare unit I had. I put it back on the tractor and sure enough, the backhoe is as good as new. The story here is that if the pressure relief valve is stuck open or the spring or the small pin is broke, your system pressure when trying to swing the boom will just go right to the hydraulic tank. The good news is that it is very easy to remove, disassemble and inspect. In my case, if I had know, I could have fixed with just 2 wrenches in 10 minutes. Now I know and will not be afraid to remove the pressure relief valves and take them apart if needed.

Message to Kubota: The swing valve pressure relief valve is $650 to replace. WTF. There is likely little that can wear or break other than the o-rings, the springs, the pilot pin or the main pressure relief cup. I cannot see any of those items costing more than $10 yet there is no rebuild kit or replacement parts available. What a major miss to help owners maintain their equipment cost effectively. I suppose an owner could try to find similar springs if one broke but why have to. Shame on Kubota if they cannot make these parts available to their equipment owners!

Below are my photos and I have videos as well if someone would like me email them.

Hope this helps others out there and I really appreciate the folks on this forum and the information I was able to gather to get me moving in the right direction! Be sure to use the swing safety pin and the boom safety latch when working around or transporting the tractor. It is very clear to me know that a small issue with the pressure relief valve means hundreds of pounds of backhoe will be in motion with no control pressure check to keep it in place so be safe.

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As good as new!

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What an excellent write up,
and spectacular photos.
Thanks for sharing this.

 

[gbutts]

I have a B26 and I haven’t encountered this problem (yet!). I’m unsure if the hardware has a different design to the M59.

Either way, an excellent thread with great information. Thanks to all who contributed - bookmarked for future reference.

 

[Zork]

I was digging a hole with my Kubota m59 Backhoe and suddenly it went to the right (when facing rear) as far as it could go, and is holding itself there touching my stabilizer.

I cannot reposition it.

I came back the next day and it had no problem, started up centered, and it stayed there for my next 1-2hr project.

Fast forward a day later I needed to go do another project and I get 100' away driving and once again it goes far right max position, and now it won't center or let me center it.

I popped off the cover to see the controls and nothing is sticking or getting hung-up that I can see.


Position sensor? Valve? Dirty Screen? I have no clue what this could be but it seems to be either "on" or "off" no in-between bleeding off causing it to slowly move.

Do you see Teflon tape on any of your fittings? Your system and that valve could be contaminated. [Nevermind]

 

[heading westward]

Thank you so much for sharing this information. I have a L45 that occasionally would not let backhoe swing left as though someone unhooked the linkage btwn the handle & valve. You could notice the backhoe boom just “twitch” ever so slightly to the left then nothing. It only happens once or twice about every 20 hrs of backhoe use. It returns to normal very quickly but is very annoying. I bought the unit used and it appears the original owner had the same issue because there are witness marks on the swing cylinders showing that they have been apart. I can guarantee they were chasing the same problem that never got fixed.

 

[rScotty]

Thank you so much for sharing this information. I have a L45 that occasionally would not let backhoe swing left as though someone unhooked the linkage btwn the handle & valve. You could notice the backhoe boom just “twitch” ever so slightly to the left then nothing. It only happens once or twice about every 20 hrs of backhoe use. It returns to normal very quickly but is very annoying. I bought the unit used and it appears the original owner had the same issue because there are witness marks on the swing cylinders showing that they have been apart. I can guarantee they were chasing the same problem that never got fixed.

Do you do anything special to make it return to normal?

If it is unpowered to the left, have you tried the technique of moving the swing all the way to the right, then fully raising the right outrigger, extending the hoe, and rapidly moving the swing valve as gravity swings the boom to the left?

That's how I get our M59 working again.

rScotty

 

[heading westward]

Do you do anything special to make it return to normal?

If it is unpowered to the left, have you tried the technique of moving the swing all the way to the right, then fully raising the right outrigger, extending the hoe, and rapidly moving the swing valve as gravity swings the boom to the left?

That's how I get our M59 working again.

rScotty

When the problem happens I move the left swing handle left to right several times and the boom’s swing functions returns to normal. On a couple of occasions I noticed that if the LH side of the machine is leaning down (RH side if operating the backhoe) when swinging to the right and I let go of the controls the boom will keep swinging until it physically can’t. This takes place just before the control stick has no input attempting to swing left. Only on a hand full of occasions has the swing not returned to functioning normal. I’d have to shut the machine down and restart or do other backhoe functions then it’ll return to normal. I have yet to try using the stabilizers to lean the tractor 1 way or the other to see if that makes a difference when the problem occurs.

 

[TWD]

I should have updated this a month ago or more now...

I took apart the entire thing as someone pictured (thank you so much), ran the springs\misc parts through my ultrasonic cleaner, re-assembled, and it works... mostly.

However... I still do not have full pressure to one side... for example I can't use the backhoe to lift the rear end over a ditch in one direction, but I can the other direction with so much force I'd throw myself out if not paying attention or running to high RPM when doing so

I've put about 60hrs on the backhoe since then 100% use of removing stumps and now my thumb cylinder is leaking around the cylinder rod (already replaced on my dipper), and in addition to that my main cylinder is leaking around the threads... hoping that's just needing to be tightened up but it's a bit upsetting to see so much issues in something that was barely used for years until now. (It was used to lift and move things monthly since I've owned it, and remove a stump or 2, but now I'm using it for hours on end.)


Question -- For those of us who had this problem do you operate the backhoe for hours on end and\or in high temperatures? I noticed I was getting really hot when outside air temp was only 70-75 and it was from the AUX hydraulic lines to the left (not in use) radiating heat... I cleaned out my hydraulic cooler fins and ran it for 2-3hrs and the AUX lines never got hot that I felt them!! That was nice. Does Kubota have an "overheat" hydrlauic fluid warning? Or how do you know it's overheating? (I personally can tell after 2-3hrs I start to smell the fluid, not burn, its just "its heated up now I smell it.) I'm just curious if i'll know (alarm) if I overheat it, or if not, and if not, I'll change all fluids.