backhoe, trencher, renting, buying...

[Freds]

Hi guys.
I've read through some of the threads here and it looks like a backhoe could be a worthwhile investment for my tractor, but here's the deal...

I've got some drainage to put in. It's a very soft area, so soft that the rental place sent me home when I went to pick up a trencher, saying the machine would not be able to get enough traction if there was any standing water. This left me looking at hoes and trenchers on the web for a couple weeks (lol).
In the meantime I got a DR catalog in the mail that shows this nifty towable backoe for $5400. Lighter might be good, and maybe I could get it into areas with my wheeler that I couldn't with a tractor hoe. It might be bad, too.... I just don't know yet. And searching DR backhoe didn't come up with anything here, so nothing to go buy on how it works in the real world.

Enter the learning curve of using a hoe. I figure I can drop the trencher down to depth and let it do its thing. How easy is it really to dig a nice, flat trench with a backhoe? Any type of hoe. If I was thinking of a hoe to dig a bunch of holes the choice would be easier, but I don't want to spend 8 hours digging a rough trench and 16 hours trying to get it flat and level with a shovel...

Renting a trencher will cost 200/day and I should be done in a day easy, provided that ground dries out. My neighbor, who also has some drainage to put in, said that a friend of his told him he could dig 150' of trench in 2 hrs at a cost of 45/hr. That's pretty good, provided it's a nice trench, and I'll figure it would be from someone used to doing this type of work.

And something is telling me I would need to go with a 3ph hoe because I did not get the heavy duty bucket on my bota, which I have read horror stories about. Having a hoe would be nice, but I'm already going to be watching my 2600 snowblower set all summer, I don't need another high dollar implement (or that DR one) collecting dust and cobwebs, too.

Does anyone one to assemble my thoughts here and give me some sound advice? I'm still leaning towards waiting and renting that trencher, but the little boy in me is saying buy a hoe (lol).

Thanks

 

[Wis Bang]

My father ran equipment for a living. Watching him and other good operators and you will see that they can make the boom and diper move while leaving the bottom of the bucket flat. From what I've seen, any time you pull back on two controls the hydraulic action stops so when you are pulling back on the dipper and want to adust the boom pulling back on the boom control and then releasing the dipper control lets the boom move. Repeating this action allows one to smoothly raise the boom & pull the dipper back making the bucket avance toward the machine w/ the cutting edge paralell to the botom.

Easier said than done and I found that it was easier in a large excavator [225 CAT] cause you could open a valve to slow the reaction of the hydraulics untill one got familiar w/ the process.

I always remember dad w/ the dipper & boom controls back more than in the released position to control the movement of the bucket...

even if you hack up the bottom, the machine will smooth it out much easier than using a shovel. Safety First! Stay out of the trench and let the machine do the work. Trench collapse is a major killer of construction laborers...

 

[Freds]

Hey. Thanks for replying, Wis. I just came back to rephase things so it was easier to understand

So let me put it this way;
You have 500' of 4" drain tile to put it on ground that already has a gentle grade in the direction you want to run.
You have a 4WD trencher.
You have a tractor with a hoe and 12" bucket.
Which one would you grab to do the job?

Would it make a difference if the ground is saturated and you sink in when you even walk on it?

Thanks.

Hey Wis, is that how you dig a level trench? If you can keep the bucket level as you drag it back, the trench will be the same depth?

 

[ScottK]

Do you have Home Depot rentals near you? You can get a tracked trenching machine (36" depth) for $100 for 4 hours or $150 for 24 hours. Just used one myself.

 

[Freds]

They do? Boy, that would be great, Scott. I'll check into it.
I was looking at those Cormidi units on the web, built in Italy, but I they didn't seem very popular un our country. Those things are great. They are tracked, walk behind dumpers that you can get loaders for and also trenchers. They even come in diesel. The perfect machine for working in soft area, IMO. Do a search on cormidi and you should bump into them.

One of my concerns with the ground being so soft is the trench filling in due to water seepage. I was thinking that would be less of a problem with a 12" bucket trench as opposed to a narrow trench.... I've never trenched before and was hoping for some advice from here, but maybe I'm in unchartered territory with my questions.

I did find out yesterday that they make subframe kits for my bota, so the smaller loader is not a concern anymore.

 

[2manyrocks]

I would not buy any towable backhoe because the onsite mobility is so limited compared to a tractor mounted unit and because the resale would be limited, in my opinion.

When I looked into buying a backhoe for my 22 hp yanmar, the dealer selling the backhoe told me that he had seen backhoes break the rear ends of smaller tractors. I like my tractor and decided not to go that route.

I ended up buying a used Terramite thinking I could at least get most of my money back if I decided to sell it. But if I had to trench 450', I'd be leaning towards renting a trencher just on account of the speed.

 

[Wis Bang]

A tracked trencher will give you the best traction in mud but will it be wide enough? How deep do you need to be?

Check out a rental center for a mini excavator on tracks if you need to go deeper/wider as you will have a hard time laying 4" draintile in a 3" wide trench...

Even a tracked skid steer w/ mini-hoe shouldn't be bad for a 1/2 day or daily rental.

You could use your FEL to remove a foot or so [step trench] to make a trencher sit lower for added depth work some of the mud aside & even plow out a drainage path to get rid of some surface water b/4 you rent the machine.

A rookie on a backhoe will take longer than a trencher to dig 450' & they can be more forgiving, I knew a guy who ran a ditch witch installing golf course irrigation lines. Once he got it going OK he would go sit in the shade and just watch it walk across the fairway.

 

[ScottK]

Compact Power Equipment This is the one I rented at Home Depot this week (although it was painted red for Home Depot). They had a more powerful version as well. Either one goes to 36" deep and digs a 6" wide trench, although mine ended up more like 8-9 inches wide (which was just fine with me) because of all the rocks I had. Also it comes on a trailer with a loader bucket, multiple augers, and some other attachments I didn't use. The bigger version has more under carriage clearance and is $199 for 24 hours. If you're worried about sinking, then I guess get the bigger one. You're not going to sink much with tracks though. If your soil doesn't drain then you probably will have water in your trenches. That doesn't really matter though. Just drop in your drains and away it will go. 1-866-HD-RENTAL for more info.

 

[Freds]

The trencher I checked out is supposed to trench wide enough for 4" tile. I can only hope, because I bought the tile already.

The HD by me does not rent any equipment. Figures.

The guy at the rental place suggested a mini excavator and also said it would not be as fast as a trencher. I think I'm leaning towards the trencher because it will do the least damage to this soft area and pretty much runs itself. Of course, then I'll probably tear the ground up getting my tractor close with the gravel...

Can't do anything with it raining every week. That area is still pretty saturated.

Of course, in the back of my mind I'm still trying to justify the price of a backhoe (lol).

Thanks for the additional input guys.

 

[Redneck in training]

I just bought this one for $2100. It is homemade from plans I suppose. Don't have it yet home so I can't tell you how it works. I bought it primarily to put in about 1200 ft of irrigation ditch to increase watershed of my pond. I will report how it works when I get it home sometimes by the end of April.