backhoe, trencher, renting, buying...

[mjncad]

Nice new toy...err...tool you bought Freds. I'd wait for the soil to dry out before trenching regardless of machine type.

I taught myself how to run a mini excavator and I could trench a straight line no problem; but I never did figure out how to get a consistent depth and flat bottom with it. You will probably have the same learning curve with the hoe as I did with the excavator concerning the trench bottom.

 

[Redneck in training]

Well just to update, I bought a backhoe today.
It'll be nice always having one always available without having the constrictions of renting. At least that's what I keep telling myself

Very nice toy. Don't worry it will pay for itself. Digging in dirt beats drinking in a bar.

 

[Freds]

Thanks mj and Redneck. I was playing around with it as little today and was much more aware of what I was doing than yesterday.

So, question;

I'm going to dig a trench. How do I check the depth of the trench as I go?
From what I've read, I can pound a couple T posts and level a string where I want the trench to be, then measure down from the string, but the string would be in the way when digging. It isn't making much sense to me to dig by sight alone, then go back and set your string up, then try to dig out the high spots to level your trench.

How do you hoe using trench diggers go about this?

Thanks

 

[philbuilt]

Freds,
Nice addition to the implement family. Trenching isn't all that hard. You did state that the grade is running down in the right direction. (i Think) Start your trench at the end and work to the wet spot. Use the hoe bucket as a gauge. Put the spoils only on one side and use the grade and bucket as the depth gauge. On my hoe if the bucket is sitting flat with teeth parallel with grade the top of the bucket is 16".
Another tip when trenching is have someone else sit and move the tractor forward. Its a time saver.
Phil

 

[GE222]

Assuming that you can find a trencher that is sized for the 4" width drain tile, I would go that route.

The trenched depth will be far more consistant. Also, back filling a smaller amount of finely ground dirt, is much easier than the larger amount of what you will have from an excavator.

What is the ground like? Rocks can really make trenching a challenge.

Are you putting any gravel or similar in with the tile?

 

[Freds]

Thanks Phil and GE.
I can practice trench where I am merely running some downspouts underground and into a creek. That has a pretty noticeable grade, so shouldn't be too bad. Depending on how I do there is whether or not I trench for the drainage in my yard... It sure would seem silly renting a trencher when I have a backhoe, but I sure don't need a 16" trench for drain tile either. Not to mention filling it back in and wanting to put gravel around the tile. I was even kicking around making a wood jig that would slide over the tile and let me backfill the trench up to it on either side, then I could dump the gravel into it. I could then pull it out with my loader, but that sure is a lot of farting around. Come to think of it, I would need two, so one is always in place while I butt the other one up to it. Yeah, too much farting around. I'd be better off getting 20 more tons of gravel.

Thanks for the tip on using the bucket as a gauge, Phil. That's about how deep I want to be anyway for this project.
I just finished "hoeing around" for about 3 hours and still have a hard time judging when the bucket is flat though. There's just not much "flat" to it, not with the shape it is. And once you start pulling it into the dirt, you can't see the teeth anymore... At least there's a float position on the BH for the boom. That's supposed to help you trench once you get started.

 

[Wis Bang]

Dad used to do the most w/ the dipper & boom after establishing the depth he would make the 'toe' of the bucket paralell to the ground and sit it in the trench & working the boom and dipper pull it to him a little, maybe half a foot or so, then curl the bucket up , lift and dump, and repeat.

It's hard to explain but practice should help. So would watching a pro if you can. After the firrst hunded feet of trench it shoudl get easier.

He only pointed the bucket teeth down when starting the trench & would curl the bucket while pulling it in w/ the dipper repeating this in the same spot until he had established the depth & from then on the bucket would be somewhat flat w/ the teeth pointing at him as he lowered it into the trench.

Watching him work you could see that after dumping he would curl the bucket while swinging back to the trench w/ the teeth lower than paralell so it was level when it reached the bottom.

I've watched amatures and they try and drop the bucket w/ the teeth pointing down and try to dig by curling the bucket. That works to gain depth when diiging a deep trench but a level trench is more finesse than just hoging out dirt...

Find a place to 'play' w/ the hoe & put the bucket flat on the ground and work w/ the dipper & boom controls until you can walk the bucket across the ground with out getting much dirt inside. Try pulling the second control back and releasing the first and work 'em back & forth till you can pull the bucket to you a foot or so with out thinking about it.

I watched an operator start a job w/ a big CAT excavator. the engineer told him that the water & sewer main were 'here & here' paralell to each other and how far down each were. He was able to find them by feel. When he stopped & pointed, a laborer jumped down w/ a shovel & uncovered the water main, then he dug alongside a few more buckets full and pointed again there was the sewer. That's why he was paid the big bucks...

 

[Freds]

"Find a place to 'play' w/ the hoe & put the bucket flat on the ground and work w/ the dipper & boom controls until you can walk the bucket across the ground with out getting much dirt inside. Try pulling the second control back and releasing the first and work 'em back & forth till you can pull the bucket to you a foot or so with out thinking about it."

That, Wis Bang, is excellent advice. It never occurred to me to practice walking it across the ground's surface.

Good job! Thanks

 

[sandman2234]

One of my first experiences with a backhoe showed me that I really needed to practice, and do every chance I get. One of my neighbors saw the hoe in my yard, dropped by and offered to give me a bit of a hand, as I was rapidly running out of daylight. He did in 15 minutes what I had taken half a day to do. He was at home on the hoe, as he operated one every day for a local utility company. Practice will help, and soon you won't even ask questions about operating it, lol!
David from jax

 

[Wis Bang]

"Find a place to 'play' w/ the hoe & put the bucket flat on the ground and work w/ the dipper & boom controls until you can walk the bucket across the ground with out getting much dirt inside. Try pulling the second control back and releasing the first and work 'em back & forth till you can pull the bucket to you a foot or so with out thinking about it."

That, Wis Bang, is excellent advice. It never occurred to me to practice walking it across the ground's surface.

Good job! Thanks

It's the only way to learn! Developing the skill to make the bucket work when you can't see it means having the skill to watch the bucket/dipper/boom and not the controls. Dad worked the controls much the same way a musician plays an instrument.

It was much harder to describe in wrighting though I can picture him working a hoe in my head.

That's what always impressed me about him. He worked for the city where I grew up. He would be plowing snow w/ a grader only to jump out and climb onto a hoe to go dig up a water main that's turning a few blocks into an ice rink. He had the ability to get into a different machine and knew what to do.

He won a prize, a new crane dealership was having an open house. As part of the shop tour the owner started describing this 'antique' that they had inside the shop rigged up w/ a clam. He was describing how it took them months to learn how to run this old monster & that there was a cash reward for anyone who could. Well he learned to operate cranes on a similar model & was able to start it, hoist the clam swing it arount 360 & pick up an implement on the floor and then set it back down to the amazement of the workers. Hadn't run one of them in over 40 years!