backhoe
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Ledgemere Farm
Veteran Member
Advantage: easy on and off
disadvantage: tractor frame takes all of the stress
disadvantage: tractor frame takes all of the stress
DavesTractor
Elite Member
A good subframe hoe comes off in about 5 minutes with no tools. I see the only advantage of the three-point is cost and portability...it can work on about any tractor. I've seen a number of tractors split through the bellhousing with three-point backhoes. If you do use a three-point hoe, at least reinforce the tractor between the rear axle and loader to stiffen the center section.
Henro
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,982
- Location
- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
Couple things that come to mind:
If you plan on using a MMM then I don't think you can if you have a subframe backhoe.
Kubota does change something on the side of the tractor (brackets) when the 3PH backhoe is installed. They also install a heavy duty top link bracket. If you go with the Kubota 3PH backhoe you need to make sure these things are installed.
I have a Kubota 3PH backhoe on the back of my B2910, and I personally do not feel you need to do more than the Kubota engineers did when they designed the system. I would hesitate to make any modifications, for fear that I might end up with something that stressed the tractor in some way I did not foresee. But that is just me.
That being said, it sure seems like subframe backhoes are the way to go and if there had been a subframe Kubota backhoe for my tractor I would have got one.
You could go with a Woods or other brand of backhoe, that uses a subframe if you do plan on using a MMM. I did not consider that option because it was my fear that if something went wrong and the tractor broke, when it had a non-kubota backhoe on it, I would have to suffer through a lot of finger pointing and delays in repair/warranty denials. This was simple speculation on my part.
I think the claims of tractors being broken in half by 3PH backhoes are over blown, but such things have happened. So this possibility is certainly a disadvantage to some degree.
The subframe takes away a little ground clearance from what I understand and gets in the way of an MMM and perhaps something else (don't know what though).
I think either can be very satisfactory, provided that they are installed properly, as designed for the tractor they are going on.
If you plan on using a MMM then I don't think you can if you have a subframe backhoe.
Kubota does change something on the side of the tractor (brackets) when the 3PH backhoe is installed. They also install a heavy duty top link bracket. If you go with the Kubota 3PH backhoe you need to make sure these things are installed.
I have a Kubota 3PH backhoe on the back of my B2910, and I personally do not feel you need to do more than the Kubota engineers did when they designed the system. I would hesitate to make any modifications, for fear that I might end up with something that stressed the tractor in some way I did not foresee. But that is just me.
That being said, it sure seems like subframe backhoes are the way to go and if there had been a subframe Kubota backhoe for my tractor I would have got one.
You could go with a Woods or other brand of backhoe, that uses a subframe if you do plan on using a MMM. I did not consider that option because it was my fear that if something went wrong and the tractor broke, when it had a non-kubota backhoe on it, I would have to suffer through a lot of finger pointing and delays in repair/warranty denials. This was simple speculation on my part.
I think the claims of tractors being broken in half by 3PH backhoes are over blown, but such things have happened. So this possibility is certainly a disadvantage to some degree.
The subframe takes away a little ground clearance from what I understand and gets in the way of an MMM and perhaps something else (don't know what though).
I think either can be very satisfactory, provided that they are installed properly, as designed for the tractor they are going on.
8561
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
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- 653
- Location
- New Hampshire
- Tractor
- Kubota B2410 Bi-Speed Turn, R4's, Top 'N' Tilt, LA 352 Loader w/ Toothbar
I agree with Henro's post. I don't think there is any doubt a subframe set-up is a stronger way to go. There are a few concessions as Henro accurately pointed out. That said, I don't think Kubota would design a system that was going to increase the liklihood of putting them into major warranty repair issues.
I have a backhoe on my Kubota, but it is not a Kubota hoe. I also do not have a full subframe like the Woods and some of the others have. What I did do was put on the heavy duty top link that Henro pointed out and I also had the Kubota factory heavy duty frame brackets installed, as I would have gotten with a Kubota hoe, and saved a few thousand bucks in the process. My set up looks just like it would had I bought the Kubota factory unit, except it is a different brand, and it has an extra 6 inches of reach over the Kubota.
I have a backhoe on my Kubota, but it is not a Kubota hoe. I also do not have a full subframe like the Woods and some of the others have. What I did do was put on the heavy duty top link that Henro pointed out and I also had the Kubota factory heavy duty frame brackets installed, as I would have gotten with a Kubota hoe, and saved a few thousand bucks in the process. My set up looks just like it would had I bought the Kubota factory unit, except it is a different brand, and it has an extra 6 inches of reach over the Kubota.
TV372
Bronze Member
I used a 2910 kubota that had a Bradco 3375 backhoe. Was very impressed with the strength of the hoe. Very easy mount 2 pins & 2 hoses. Also 3pt hitch arms can stay on while hoe is attached.
Cliff_Johns
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you plan on using a MMM then I don't think you can if you have a subframe backhoe.)</font>
Henro,
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that you can't mow with a MMM and leave the BH on at the same time. I guess that would be true. Or do you mean that when you take the Kubota BH off, the subframe stays on the tractor and gets in the way of the MMM? On some tractors (e.g. my JD4110) the subframe comes off with the BHm so it's not in the way of the MMM, though it is in the way in the barn. Just curious.
Cliff
Henro,
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that you can't mow with a MMM and leave the BH on at the same time. I guess that would be true. Or do you mean that when you take the Kubota BH off, the subframe stays on the tractor and gets in the way of the MMM? On some tractors (e.g. my JD4110) the subframe comes off with the BHm so it's not in the way of the MMM, though it is in the way in the barn. Just curious.
Cliff
Henro
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
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- 4,982
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- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
Cliff,
First let me say that I don't have first hand experience but have come to believe that with sub frame backhoes on a B7800 kubota, that you cannot install a MMM with the subframe on the tractor.
I guess if you remove the subframe with the backhoe then this point would not be true.
I thought that subframe backhoes left part of the subframe on the tractor...mounting points...something like that which got in the way of using the MMM on a B7800/B2910. Or was it the MMM support linkage had to be removed for the subframe backhoe to work? I don't remember... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Maybe someone who knows the details can speak up with the specifics. I guess I read enough here at TBN to believe this to be factual, but I don't know the exact specifics of "Why not?"
I hope I have not fallen into the "if you hear it enough you start to believe it" trap. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I was referring to the B7800 the original question was about, which is essentially the same tractor as my B2910...but still...I can't give you the specific, for sure reason...hope someone will be able to...and this time I will burn the answer in to my memory... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I hope I have not spread misinformation with that statement. I believe I heard the reason why in the past, believed it, and forgot the reason! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
First let me say that I don't have first hand experience but have come to believe that with sub frame backhoes on a B7800 kubota, that you cannot install a MMM with the subframe on the tractor.
I guess if you remove the subframe with the backhoe then this point would not be true.
I thought that subframe backhoes left part of the subframe on the tractor...mounting points...something like that which got in the way of using the MMM on a B7800/B2910. Or was it the MMM support linkage had to be removed for the subframe backhoe to work? I don't remember... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Maybe someone who knows the details can speak up with the specifics. I guess I read enough here at TBN to believe this to be factual, but I don't know the exact specifics of "Why not?"
I hope I have not fallen into the "if you hear it enough you start to believe it" trap. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I was referring to the B7800 the original question was about, which is essentially the same tractor as my B2910...but still...I can't give you the specific, for sure reason...hope someone will be able to...and this time I will burn the answer in to my memory... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I hope I have not spread misinformation with that statement. I believe I heard the reason why in the past, believed it, and forgot the reason! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
garbageman
Silver Member
Cliff,
I have a Woods sub-frame bach hoe on my tractor. The front mounting brackets are attached (bolted) the the frame of the tractor just below the clutch/brake/gas pedals. It remains on the machine after removing the backhoe and decreases your ground clearence about four (4) inchs. If you like this setup you won't be able to ulitize a MMM. My self I like the setup, the hoe is on and off in no time and the tractor feels very sturdy. I also like the RMM which is on/off very quickly also. I'm not aware of a sub frame that you can use a MMM with.
Good Luck,
Ray
I have a Woods sub-frame bach hoe on my tractor. The front mounting brackets are attached (bolted) the the frame of the tractor just below the clutch/brake/gas pedals. It remains on the machine after removing the backhoe and decreases your ground clearence about four (4) inchs. If you like this setup you won't be able to ulitize a MMM. My self I like the setup, the hoe is on and off in no time and the tractor feels very sturdy. I also like the RMM which is on/off very quickly also. I'm not aware of a sub frame that you can use a MMM with.
Good Luck,
Ray
aloha
Silver Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2003
- Messages
- 213
- Location
- Hawaii - Big Island
- Tractor
- Kubota B7800 / Kubota RTV X900 / Scag Turf Tiger
I have a Woods 7500 on a subframe on my B7800.
As DavesTractor said, my experience is 5 minutes on or off. It is easier, faster, and less sweat than getting the post hole digger on or off.
The subframe remains attached to the backhoe, so when the backhoe is removed it takes up a good bit of floorspace.
The Woods subframe forward mount attaches to fittings which are part of the LA402 main frame, the rear attachment is to the 3PH "pin lower link." When the subframe is removed, it leaves nothing attached to the tractor to reduce your ground clearance or interfere with other attachments.
I really like the Woods design.
Another issue for you to consider is the pros and cons of using the tractor hydraulics versus a PTO pump. I went with tractor hydraulics and think that makes for slightly easier on and off, and it saved some money, but a PTO pump keeps the two hydraulic systems separate and avoids some fittings which may be weak links in the hydraulic lines.
As DavesTractor said, my experience is 5 minutes on or off. It is easier, faster, and less sweat than getting the post hole digger on or off.
The subframe remains attached to the backhoe, so when the backhoe is removed it takes up a good bit of floorspace.
The Woods subframe forward mount attaches to fittings which are part of the LA402 main frame, the rear attachment is to the 3PH "pin lower link." When the subframe is removed, it leaves nothing attached to the tractor to reduce your ground clearance or interfere with other attachments.
I really like the Woods design.
Another issue for you to consider is the pros and cons of using the tractor hydraulics versus a PTO pump. I went with tractor hydraulics and think that makes for slightly easier on and off, and it saved some money, but a PTO pump keeps the two hydraulic systems separate and avoids some fittings which may be weak links in the hydraulic lines.
