Dealer Bad Dealer Experience.

keeney · Mar 1, 2004

I am sorry to report on my bad experience shopping at a dealer here in town. I won't mention names - they will know who they are and perhaps all the dealerships can learn from this story.

As is evident from some of my previous posts, I am looking at purchasing a small backhoe for my JD 4100. I was considering a Wallenstein GX600 and the Wallenstein distributor sent me over to a JD dealer as the actual retail dealer who could help me out the best because they would know my tractor, etc.

I also thought it would be good to at least take a look at the JD backhoe and see if there was a quality difference that would justify what I figured would be a fairly hefty price difference. I had just looked at the Wallenstein unit in stock at the distributor, and I drove over to the JD dealer to look at a 46 Backhoe for my JD.

#1 disappointment - the JD dealerr had no backhoes to demo. Not even any similar models like a 47 or 48.

#2 disappointment - the JD literature on backhoes sucks. They have all sorts of features and benefits stuff on the internal dealer website that he briefly showed me on the screen, but the public website and the take-home printed stuff was very brief with no good pictures and very little details. I would rather take the stuff home or have it on my own computer to study at my leisure. Its almost like they don;t think their customers are smart enough to read the sale literature or they don;t want them to know more about what they are buying than the salesman.

#3 disappointment - the dealer spent the whole time pitching the JD hoe even though the Wallenstein dealer had obviously called ahead and asked his buddy at the dealership to take care of me.

#4 disappointment - the dealer did not offer anything better than list price on the Wallenstein unit, but came down significantly from list on the JD trying to get low enough to be the same price. The other way he got down close was to leave off the ROPs upgrade, assembly, prep, and installation.

#5 disappointment - when I asked why the JD was worth more money, the explanation was that the JD would be more prestigous, look better on my tractor, and hold its resale value better. However, when I asked what he could give me on trade-in on a near-mint-condition front-mount JD snowblower that I had bought and never used, he said they were really not interested - maybe $400 or $500 for something I paid over $2000 for.

#6 disappointment - When I pushed again for their best price on the Wallenstein, they didn't move a penny. I was later able to get some prices from other non-JD dealers for the same unit that were at least 10% off of list.

There were a couple of things they did do right:

#1 got-it-right - they did have familiarity with the 46 backhoe which has been a mystery to some other JD dealers I have called.

#2 got-it-right - a couple of things they said about the JD backhoe were actually good selling points - like easy parts availability and the sub-frame mount.

#3 got-it-right - they did validate my paperwork for the chair give-away.

Bottom line:

1. Unless they somehow change my first impression, I don't think I will ever buy anything from that dealership - JD or non-JD. That leaves me with about 3 other local JD dealerships at about the same driving distance from my house for any JD purchases I may make in the future.

2. I wish that it was possible to just order some of this kind of stuff off of the web and not pay for markups at the distributor and dealership level.

3. I am still looking for the right backhoe to buy and the right seller to sell it to me at the right price. I have another 6 - 8 weeks before the ground thaws around here to make my decision and purchase.

- Rick

Egon · Mar 2, 2004

Don't want to sound confrontational but is this perhaps a case of not getting what one wants at the price one wants.

Egon

mwood · Mar 2, 2004

I'm not sure if Egon is on track or not. However, I think the point about not having any models to demo is a very good one. I have gone to three JD dealers around here. Two of them didn't have any units marked for demonstration. They had lots of units, but none that they wanted me to test drive.

The third dealer, (and the one I will give business to if I do decide to go Green) was very helpful, let me drive a couple of units and even let me test out the I-Match hitch with implements to demonstrate the ease of use. Now I'm not saying that the other two dealers were bad (one offered to start up a tractor for me so I could hear it, but he made it clear that it wouldn't move in any way, shape, or form) but if I can't try out something, why would I want to buy it?

Dealers need to realize that there is compitition out there. They need to sell potental buyers by proving that their product is the way to go. And the only way to prove this is to demonstrate what their products can do.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, but I really think it's important to test drive before you buy. (It's saved me from making multiple bad descisions!)

keeney · Mar 2, 2004

Don't want to sound confrontational but is this perhaps a case of not getting what one wants at the price one wants. 

It was more like a case of them not working on selling me what I wanted and asked for and instead spending all their effort and my time selling what is good for them.

I understand that what I want may be expensive. The problem I had was the way that one model could come down over $1000 off of list and the other didn't move a penny at the same dealer.

If they had been willing to make the same percentage deal on both units, I would probably not be unhappy I wasted my time there now.

They didn't have any backhoes to look at, demo or new, period.

- Rick

shvl73 · Mar 2, 2004

Could it be that the dealers discount off list is different on the two brands? In my line of work, some items are sold close to or at list price out of necessity & some items have so much discount off list that 50% off sales are are considered a running joke. Just a thought.

rockyridgefarm · Mar 2, 2004

As to finding one of these hoes in stock. I bet you will be hard pressed to find a dealer that does stock them. It has been noted before that tbn folk have a lot higher frequency of backhoe ownership than the usual cut owners. I bought mine sight unseen, and believe that i am not in a minority.

After owning a backhoe I am even more convinced that i would stick with the Deere on a Deere. There's just too much that can happen to be stuck in a finger pointing match. (course, I have no idea what price difference we're talking, but I was able to get my 47 for less than the aftermarket hoes i looked at....)

zuiko · Mar 2, 2004

The difference off list is not surprising to me at all. Dealers have different margins on different items, different vendors, etc. I know I pretty much pay list on any non-deere stuff I buy (though I haven't bought anything as expensive as a BH).

I also would have to say I have never seen a CUT BH at any dealer, except the small TLB tractors. I don't think they sell very many of them compared to other implements and also very expensive.

keeney · Mar 2, 2004

I understand that no dealer can have a demo of every possible item that they sell, but its hard to sell something the customer cannot see!

The best price on the JD 46 I have been quoted is still over $6000.

The best price on a comparable third-party brand I like that I have found is about $4000.

The best used I saw so far was a fairly rusty-looking as-is, where-is unit on ebay for about $1700.

My tractor was purchased used, no longer under warranty, so there is no real issue - if something on the tractopr breaks, its my nickle. If something on the backhoe breaks, then maybe the backhoe has a warranty, either JD or third-party, probably both about the same.

The only real advantage I see to the JD is that if it does break, parts will be easier to get.

- Rick

yellowsocks93 · Mar 2, 2004

Yup. We have a lot of implements that sit outside for quite some time before they get sold so they get faded and run down. Then nobody wants to buy that implement because it looks like crap. If we were to go stocking backhoes then they would sit there forever and in my 2 years at the dealer I have never seen a backhoe on a compact tractor. Old mowers are also hard to sell. If we had a canopy for all of our equipment I could see us stocking more new and keeping the used in better shape but I don't believe a lot of dealer have this like a big indoor used equipment center.

Bob_Skurka · Mar 2, 2004

I won't buy another John Deere product until our local dealership changes ownership!!!

I have several pieces of JD lawn equipment that were purchased from various dealerships over the years PRIOR to moving out to the property I currently live at. Now if I try to have it serviced at my local dealership he treats me like I have 2 heads and flew in on an alien spacecraft.

Despite that grief, when I was shopping for another tractor last summer I walked in with a checkbook in hand. I was prepared to buy a tractor and pay for it in full. What I found was a dealership with sales reps who didn't give a rat's rear end if they even talked to me, let alone answered my questions. In fact, it was a struggle to just get anyone to show me one of the half dozen tractors they had sitting outside.

Pardon me, but it wasn't a price isssue, it was rude and horrible customer service and I will never be treated that way again and I will gladly tell my story to EVERYONE in and around the town I live in and anywhere else that I have a voice. The people were at best jerks, and I could say a lot worse.

rockyridgefarm · Mar 2, 2004

The best price on the JD 46 I have been quoted is still over $6000.



That's too bad, I paid $4800 for my 47, but that was on a new machine

cowboydoc · Mar 2, 2004

Take list price and take 23% off of that Keeney. That's what I could get you one for.

keeney · Mar 2, 2004

If we were to go stocking backhoes then they would sit there forever 
But I would think that they would at least have some nice slick literature, spec sheets, operators manual on-line, etc so I could make an informed decision. Some of the smaller 3rd-party brands have better literature, better web sites, and did a better job of helping me to buy.

Maybe its a run for their life vs. run for their lunch kind of thing. JD doesn't care about a $5000 sale, but the little guys need those sales to stay in business

- Rick

Kyle_in_Tex · Mar 2, 2004

My two cents:
1) backhoes are expensive options and slow sellers, therefore many dealers don't stock them.
2) If anyone wants to demo a backhoe, they usually get pretty scratched up. Who wants to buy a scratch and dent model? I think they are kind of like underwear. You try 'em on and they're yours.
3) Besides different profit margins, they probably can get the JD model shipped cheaper.

Bob, sorry you had some crappy salesman ruin your tractor buying experience. Mine made me feel like a kid in a candy store.

blackwell · Mar 2, 2004

Keeney,
In response to; Bottom Line, Item 2.
I like my father before me used JD and other brands and bought from dealers in our area. After finding myself getting more disturbed at getting the dealer to give me a price break, no parts in stock, then one day in watching the dealer working on my equipment and realizing that I knew more about mechanics and hydraulics than he did I decided there must be a better way.
After doing research it became clear that several manufactures do sell only direct to the end user. I have since started buying all equipment, attachments and parts direct from the manufacture at 30% up to 50% less than brands sold through dealers and found some simplier, better designed and eaiser to work on than name brands.
This might not work for everyone. If you do not have the ability to make simple repairs, or do not want to order a part for delivery tomorrow, or be willing to provide labor for warranty repairs, or not interested in saving money, then buy from the dealer.
We now have twice the equipment with half the problems, and not a single piece bought through a dealer. When you call the manufacture, they can answer your questions correct the first time. After all they made the thing in the first place.
I havent bought a car, truck, or trailer through a dealer since that day. You can find much better deals on the web, and then check them out before you buy.
EB

keeney · Mar 3, 2004

Take list price and take 23% off of that ... 

I finally found a part of the JD website that would configure the 46 backhoe (commercial division) and give me a list price.

I tlooks like the dealer was mistaken on the price! The Sub-frame is listed as being included in the base price. Its a bit confusing because they also list the subframes for the various models as options as well, leading you to believe you need to add one.

So, I now think that the dealer may have been confused by this and add $789 to the list that was a duplicate.

Also, I don;t like the JD subframe that much anyway (from what I have seen of it on the parts website), so it is also very nice that they appear to offer a subframe delete option!

Now, the JD hoe configured how I want lists out at 5255.

With the generaous 23% discount that cowboydoc mentions, it sounds like I can get down around $4050.

Of course I would still ened to design and fabricate my own subframe, but thats what I plan to do anyway.

- Rick

Bob_Skurka · Mar 3, 2004

Kyle_in_Tex . . . it wasn't JUST the salesman who ruined the buying experience for me for my latest tractor. The same thing happened 10 years ago at the same dealership when I went to buy a garden tractor, which is how I ended up at the Cub Cadet/Kubota store down the street, and I must say I love my Cub! I also very much like the Kubota B2910 I bought from the. I also bought a White mower from them. But the latest issue was with another CUT and I ended up buying a New Holland last year. Those were salesman issues.

But the service guys at the Deere dealership are jerks too. I now take my Deere lawnmowers & weedwackers to the Cub/Kubota store for service and they are happy to fix the Deere stuff. When I bought the New Holland (from yet another local dealership) this past summer, the dealer told me they would gladly repair any brand I own. So now I have 2 competing dealers who will repair my Deere equipment and I never have to set foot in the Deere dealership again!

I think the only reason the dealership still is in business is becuase the are is growing in population and as people move into the area from the suburbs, the only brand they know is JD so they go buy a Deere lawn tractor from this guy.

rockyridgefarm · Mar 3, 2004

Bob, I might be out on a limb here, but is it just remotely possible that you were suffering from a COUGH, each time you went to the Deere dealership??!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

just kidding, sorry that those jerks ran you off, but glad that you did get good support.

yellowsocks93 · Mar 3, 2004

Keeney,

I agree that Deere should have more literature out about their products. One area that I find lacking is on the internet how they don't list the lift capacity for the front end loaders for the compact tractors. I finally found it after I went to the product configurator and clicked on standard features did I get the info I wanted. I would like to see better organized literature with special shelves at my dealer. That would help people get the info they want in a timely matter.

Theowegian · Mar 3, 2004

Hello.
I wonder how difficult it would have been for that dealer to just say, "Ya know, Im not a whole lot familar with BH's but I tell ya what if you like I'll make a few phone calls right now while you have a cup of coffee..." or how about, "Ya know, Ive been wondering some of those same things myself, why dont you and me take a little trip over to (the big JD dealer where ever that is) and see what we both think!". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ok ....after your stroke, maybe he'd visit ya in the hospital, too.

But seriously, Im quite sympathetic towards your disappointment. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

At the very least, the dealer should have offered to find out answers to your specific questions, get your name / number and promise to call you....

Isnt that at least REASONABLE?

But I would go back to them and try again. Try and find out why you were treated that way and tell the manager. Ive told salemen before, that I really didnt have a good experience with them on the first visit and I want to discuss my concerns with someone else - specifically the Manager. And boy did that get their attention! And I will use that technique again, I guarantee! IF the manager treats me that way, too...Good bye Charlie for a long time!

So good luck and dont give up! (until you're satisfied)
dwight