Bailing hay with a compact

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> I was under the impression that there were several issues: 1 weight, 2. too little HP, and 3. compact tractor components aren't as heavy duty as those used in full size ag tractors. </font>
You've listed all the reasons why occasional baling should be done only with the largest compact tractor. If baling hay is going to be a recurring task, at a minimum, a utility tractor should be used.

<font color="blue"> Isn't there a minimum HP requirement? </font>
Yes, there's a minimum horsepower requirement. IMO, minimum horsepower requirements are listed for 3 reasons.

(1.) There really is a minimum hp needed to run the attachment.
(2.) They're easy to list.
(3.) They're a carryover from a time before compact tractors, when there was a direct relationship between hp and weight, e.g., 40 hp meant a utility tractor.

 

[PineRidge]

Now you all got me curious. I'm wondering what it might be like to pull a baler with my 40HP. I think this summer when my neighbor is baling hay I'm going to hook up my rig for kicks and see how bad it throws me around.

JASTN70D (John) bales on flat land and drops his bales on the ground to stack them later. There's no kicker to worry about and no hay wagon to pull behind the tractor. So I'm thinking that with the exception of the ram movement within the baler that it shouldn't overtax my rig.

I'll let you all know how I make out on this.

 

[HayDR]

Robert in NY,
The picture below is a common place in TN, KY, NC, GA, & VA.
The JD5020's have the power to pull Vermeer 5x4 balers.

 

[Darren]

Here's the solution to baling with a CUT. Use a small round baler. You still get bales that can be picked up by hand but the baler doesn't rock the tractor because of the ram moving back and forth. Bale size is 22"x25".

http://www.rekord.com/f%20&%20s%20machinery%20pages/Balers/columbia_r_500_minibaler.htm

Last I heard a guy in Kentucky was importing them. there's also a smaller model that runs off a 12-14hp two wheel tractor like a BCS.

 

[ronjhall]

Mike
You should have no problems running a square baler with your tractor. I did about 40 acres in the late 70's and early 80's with a Farmall 340. My neighbor used his Massey 135 at times also. Although it was on the light side for weight.

MikePA
If you are going to put square bales up in a barn, a hay elevator is one of the best investments you will ever make. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I know they have the power, just as I know the TN's do. I use my TN65 on a NH575 and it is way undersized for that baler. I have used a TL100A on my baler and it handled it much better. You could still feel the rocking when stopped but I didn't have to worry about the baler pushing the TL around as much as I do with the TN. So I do know the smaller utilities can handle the balers as I use one but if I had my baler first then there is no way I would have a TN or 5020 in front of it let alone a compact.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue">If you are going to put square bales up in a barn, a hay elevator is one of the best investments you will ever make. </font>
Believe me, I know! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif We usually get hay twice a year, once in the spring and once in the fall. After each session of loading, unloading and stacking I swear I'm going to buy one. Then I look at my checkbook and tell myself we can make it one more year without one. Been saying that for 14 years. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You can bale with your tractor if you drop them on the ground. However, a baler is hard on a tractor. It is like driving a truck over rough ground, if you do it enough times with light duty parts you are going to break something eventually. This is why people use heavier equipment designed for the task, you can get by with less because you have the hp but it does not help the lifespan of your tractor if you do it year after year. Try it though, baling hay is fun /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[green4710]

Thanks all for the inputs. My hay farm just went up in size from 40 acres of grass, to an additional 80 acres of alfalfa, so the 4710 looks to have a short life left with me....Any suggestions on a tractor that can still clean corrals with a loader, but enough power to bale 15000 bales a year?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

What size baler are you using? The JD 5020 series as well as the TN from NH will both handle square balers. I would much rather go to a 6000 series JD or NH TL-A and have a tractor better suited for a high capacity small square baler. If you are planning on baling 15k per year you will want to do it easy and the larger utility class tractors will make baling a lot easier on your equipment. But I do not know your space requirements to work around and in your corals so the smaller Utilities will work also. I would recommend you try both class of machines out and see how you like each for your jobs. Baling wise I would much rather have a New Holland TS-A but the TL-A will handle my baler fine.

Is there any way you can keep your JD and buy a larger 2wd utility for baling? The 4710 would be useful for raking and pulling wagons. You would save a lot by going to a 2wd and no loader for your baling tractor.

 

[rambler]

A centerline baler is typically designed for high through-put, and a compact of any size is not going to cut it for the resons mentioned.

A typical older square baler uses 15 hp or so. However the flywheel 'stores' 50 hp, and can back-feed into your tractor. This puts great stress on the tractor, and many compacts are not built sturdy enough to handle the load - pto breakage.

A square baler can weight 2000 lbs or more. A light compact tractor, often with a loader on it, has a very light rear end. Between the rocking of the plunger, the offset nature of a baler, and hills, a light compact tractor will likely jacknife on you, making a scary situation. You see, most square balers end up with negative tongue weight when bales (or a thrower???) are on the back of it, lifing _up_ on the rear of your tractor. Hit the braks on a downslope, one wheel on slippery dry hay windrow, and all sorts of things happen to mess up your shorts....

Now, a 50 hp compact is pretty big, likely one can handle the typical older square baler. That's cool.

--->Paul

 

[slowzuki]

The hesston centrelines run on only 30 pto hp or something like that.

I believe our JD 336 weighs 3000 lb or so.

The flywheel eases the surges in power on the tractor and yes and can backfeed and or be rough on the pto.

I have never, ever seen negative tongue weigh on a baler. Ours has about 1000 lb or so if tongue weight and have never seen it lift on the pin.

 

[kensfarm]

"Any suggestions on a tractor that can still clean corrals with a loader, but enough power to bale 15000 bales a year?"

Is your target sales.. squares for horse owners?

Size the tractor to the the equipment you're planning to run now AND the equipment upgrades you plan to run in the future.

I've seen the farmers doing it for a living.. they take off cutting or baling like a bat out of .....(you know). W/ that much ground to cover.. a cut just won't cut it.. but they can help w/ raking or towing wagons. There def. will be enough work for 2 tractors & several helpers.

 

[slowzuki]

12000 bales is a pile of small squares. If doing it commercially one would want to size for it from the start. Here that would mean big rake or double hitching smaller rakes, a high capacity baler inline or a JD 346 or NH equivalent. A basket or thrower and wagon or bale wagon or accumulator and grapple setup. And barns to store it in.

I would pick a utility tractor w cab at the 60-70 hp mark, 2wd no loader and match an open station 50 hp or so utility with 4wd and loader if doing grapple route.

12000 bales with one tractor is not a fun summer.

If I was starting big I would start with open front pole barns with a 12 bale accumulator and grapple with 4 or 5 hay racks. I would buy a skidsteer to keep at the barn for unloading with a grapple if I didn't have enough racks. The 2wd cab tractor would do all the mowing, baling, tedding raking etc with appropriate sized implements. The 4wd open tractor would have the 2nd grapple and load the wagons and shuttle them to the barn.

I like the grapple idea as many customers here use flatbed trailers which can be grapple loaded. This would give an advantage as many are middle aged horse women who can't always round up a loading crew.

 

[Bob_Young]

Baled for years (80's and early 90's) using, first, an old McCormick 45 baler (Ugh!) and, more recently, a small Ford square baler (can't remember the model) using a Ford 2000 (gas, 3 cylinder, 3500# and about 32HP). Always dropped the bales on the ground. The land was hilly. Don't think we ever did more than about 25 acres in a season.

The Ford baler ran like a dream behind the 2000. Once when the 2000 had tire problems, we pulled the baler behind a JD40 (Johnnypopper, about 20HP and 2500#). It did the job but it looked like the baler was running the tractor. Just took it slow is all. Never bothered pulling the baler with the Ford 4000 as the 2000 did it so well.

Still have the baler. Looking forward to running it with the L4300 when I get the hayfields working again.

If you get into big bales, high volume, pulling wagons behind the baler and bale kickers, you'll need something quite substantial. If you keep it simple and don't push things hard, a midsize to large CUT will get you by; but I think, even then, 3000# tractor weight is about the lower limit for baling.

FWIW
Bob

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If running a grapple you will want a tractor to shuttle wagons. It would be a pain to constantly have to hook and unhook. If that is how you had to do it then you could get by with only two racks but you would fall behind on stacking real quick with only two tractors.

Ideally we would all just have 10 tractors with three of them having loaders so we always have enough. But since we don't we have to make due. I keep debating about adding a fifth kicker rack or just buying a stack wagon and sell off the rest of my kicker equipment. Money wise tells me to run what I have for a couple years but I am going to have to hire some help to unload this year and it is hard to find people to do that type of work in this area. Of course we do have a lot of Mexicans looking for work.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Size the tractor to the the equipment you're planning to run now AND the equipment upgrades you plan to run in the future. )</font>

This is the best advice anyone can receive when starting a haying operation. There is a lot of money tied up in equipment and it does no good if your equipment is too small to allow you to expand when the chance presents itself. The other thing is to always keep your eye out for equipment. There are a lot of deals out there but they are not always in the spring when you need them. There are a lot of great deals in the fall and winter that will allow a person to save a lot of money on something they will need eventually and it is better to buy when the opportunity presents itself then to try and buy when something happens and you need it right away.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you get into big bales, high volume, pulling wagons behind the baler and bale kickers, you'll need something quite substantial. If you keep it simple and don't push things hard, a midsize to large CUT will get you by; but I think, even then, 3000# tractor weight is about the lower limit for baling.
)</font>

I would raise the lower limit for baling with a kicker to at least 5000 pounds on flat ground and 8000 for hilly ground. I have ran my TN on a kicker baler in hilly ground and it weighs around 6000 pounds and there is so little room for error that I was not comfortable at all. You are more worried about looseing(sp /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif) control of your rig while going down hill then you are keeping an eye on the baler. I am glad I do not have to bale those hills this year.

 

[slowzuki]

I was thinking load all the racks then shuttle them. You wouldn't need to unhook at the barn as the skidsteer would be there to unload. If a skid steer q/a grapple was used you could take it to the barn on the tractor first rack and pop it on the skidsteer for the 4 or 5 racks then take it back with the last rack.

I won't be in that position anytime soon, we are teaming up with a neighbour to hay again this year. Unfortunately we are losing the IH 584 (52 pto, 4wd, cab, loader) that was our main baling tractor last year. This year is their 2wd Case / IH 585 open (52 pto hp) and the new to us Kubota L5030 HSTC.

Combined we will only be at 6000 bales or so this year. I would like to get back up to 10,000 over the next 5 year. Our problem is barns. No low labour storage available.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If running a grapple you will want a tractor to shuttle wagons. It would be a pain to constantly have to hook and unhook. If that is how you had to do it then you could get by with only two racks but you would fall behind on stacking real quick with only two tractors.
)</font>

 

[green4710]

Wow, thanks for all the information all. Im in the process of finding another tractor to bale hay with. Im looking at older john deeres (4430), IH (1086), etc. I cant imagine bailing 15000 bales on my 4710. I dont know if we'd survive. However, in doing small squares, I plan on buying a balewagon to stack with. That and a hay elevator to put a few in the barn, but mostly we will sell the rest. You guys are a wealth of information, this board is a huge help! Thanks!