Barn building with tractor help?

[jdmar]

FINALLY..."Congress" has approved the budget for my barn on the new land. We are building a 36 x64 (inside dimension) barn. Cement foundation since it is on a slope. 10' first floor, and second floor with Gambrell attic/box trusses. I will stick frame the walls with 2x6 and OSB on outside (and inside after wiring and insulation). We will have a metal roof and cedar shake the outside with faux stone veneer eventually on foundation portion (about 2 feet above ground). I have a couple questions for help:
note: I am doing most of this by myself after the foundation is up.

1) Has anyone used a small tractor with bucket to lift walls into place? I am thinking of building the walls on the ground in about 15-20 foot sections (will first calculate total weight) then attaching an inverted "U" metal bracket on the wall to hook the bucket into. I can then lift them the 20-24" onto the foundation. Obviously I have to be careful about height I raise my bucket to...and about wind. Has anyone done sucha foolish thing as this!?!

2) Also I was going to use 8/12 attic trusses but my wife and I both like the gambrel look. The regular trusses can be set inverted on the first floor then rotated into place. But with Gambrell I doubt I can do this...any ideas sugestions. I might try to rent or hire a crane but wonder if I should just let a crew do this part? I guess I should get a couple bids for this part, huh?

Any advice, suggestion, experience is appreciated as always.

peter

 

[LD1]

First and obvious question is what is the lift capacity of your loader?

I don't think the walls will be a probem if it isn't windy. You see it all the time on TV where 2 or 3 guys will lift a section of wall into place. So I think a decient tractor will handle this, maybe with someone else holding(stabilizing) it until in place.

36 foot trusses are probabally too heavy for my next suggestion. When I set my lighter 30' sicssor trusses into place, we used an old 20' TV antenna tower strapped to the bottom of the bucket as a boom pole to get the height to set into place. I wish I had taken pictures of the set up.

Another option that I have seen done many times is to use an excavator to set the trusses. They usually have a pretty good reach. They are expensive to rent but I don't think they are as expensive as a crane. A few years back a frien of mine did just this. Best part was he rented it for a day and we were done in about half a day, so we used it to dig out some stumps and clear out some other dead trees that he as planning on doing at a later time. Nothing like killing 2 birds with one stone.

 

[jdmar]

I have a small tractor with bucket (JD 4300--about 32 HP). As I recall the bucket lift capacity is about 800 pounds.

I like the idea of the bucket extension to lift the trusses. I had thought about that briefly but couldn't see controlling a 20 foot plus rod from the bucket without bad momentum arms things happening (aka tip over). Maybe I will check some more details. I am sure the truss plant could give me a weight of the trusses. I even thought of renting one of those "people lifter" cranes but thought the truss might also exceed that capacity.

I like the excavator idea too. The total height to top of truss will be about 24' above the ground. But I could even lift from several feet below top of the truss.

Great ideas so far. Thanks!
Peter

 

[scgargoyle]

Go to barnplans.com and see how they do it. I'm thinking of using their plans when I build my barn. Basically, you get your 4 walls up (the loader can do that) and build the deck for your attic. Then you lay out and build the trusses up on the attic deck, then raise them from there. Even a 36' truss isn't very heavy, although I would think it would take two people to set them. I had 32' scissor trusses made for a house roof-over I did, and I could pick one up (barely). When I do my barn, I'll build the wall in shorter sections with a single top sill. I may even hinge them on the foundation somehow so I can 'walk' them up. Once they are up and braced, I'll double the top sill, being sure to stagger the joints. If you're going to use the loft, you'll either need huge floor trusses, or something in the middle of the barn to take some of the load.

 

[EddieWalker]

We are building a 36 x64 (inside dimension) barn.

10' first floor, and second floor with Gambrell attic/box trusses.

Peter,

This is gonna be quite a project. Do you have any experience building wooden structures?

I'm confused on some of what you plan to do. You mention ten foot walls on the first floor. Is the second floor going to be a space that you can use? What will it be used for?

The floor for this space at that width is going to take some serious engineering. Do you plan to span the full 36 feet without any supports/posts in the middle? You can easily put a truss over that distance, but you cannot use a roof truss as the floor for a second story. The bottom chords on the truss are designed to pull the walls together and anchor the top chords of the truss together. Then based on the width of the span, you tie into the bottom chords to the tops to build in strength. Depending on the spacing of the trusses, you can use that space for some level of storage. There is a weight limit, and it's allot less then most people realize. Some people will push this with the amount of "stuff" they store in an attic to the point of failure. I've had two jobs this year where attic trusses have started to fail and 2x4's have snapped. Both times were from Christmas "stuff" accumulating in the attic. There is a limit.

If you plan to use that second story for anything more then very limited storage, I missed what your plan was for those floor joists.

Eddie

 

[skipmarcy]

I built my house here year before last by myself and used my tractor (41 hp 4x4) to set my trusses up on the walls. I used my bucket with 24" long forks and it put the ones on the 8' house walls OK. If I remember correctly, I was able to put 3 trusses at a time on my forks. My attached garage has 10' walls and I had to borrow the ramps off my equipment trailer and get them situated just so for my front wheels to raise up to get the trusses on those walls. My trusses were 32' 2x4 pine and I was able to set them by myself OK. I had a good 12' stepladder and slid the trusses carefully along the top plates into position and stood them up myself no problem. I had manual help standing all my walls up, didn't have to use the tractor, but there's no doubt it would have handled it just fine. It only took 4 of us guys to stand up 38' long, fully framed walls. The only trouble you might encounter would be with long walls - they flex alot. I was able to stand up the two 10'x16'garage walls by myself though it was a little tough on the front one with the 2x12x10' header in it !! If you had at least someone on each end to stabilize and pushed in the middle with the loader, it would probably be OK but by yourself you will probably ruin your wall and/or get hurt.

You mentioned lifting the walls 20-24" onto the foundation - are you not standing the walls directly on your slab? I used western red cedar floor plates and 1/2" anchors into my slab.

 

[jdmar]

Peter,

This is gonna be quite a project. Do you have any experience building wooden structures?

I'm confused on some of what you plan to do. You mention ten foot walls on the first floor. Is the second floor going to be a space that you can use? What will it be used for?

The floor for this space at that width is going to take some serious engineering. Do you plan to span the full 36 feet without any supports/posts in the middle? You can easily put a truss over that distance, but you cannot use a roof truss as the floor for a second story. The bottom chords on the truss are designed to pull the walls together and anchor the top chords of the truss together. Then based on the width of the span, you tie into the bottom chords to the tops to build in strength. Depending on the spacing of the trusses, you can use that space for some level of storage. There is a weight limit, and it's allot less then most people realize. Some people will push this with the amount of "stuff" they store in an attic to the point of failure. I've had two jobs this year where attic trusses have started to fail and 2x4's have snapped. Both times were from Christmas "stuff" accumulating in the attic. There is a limit.

If you plan to use that second story for anything more then very limited storage, I missed what your plan was for those floor joists.

Eddie

I have done plenty of building..but not used a crane. My only concern is the truss portion. The rest is lot of work for a one man show but it's the trusses I will need to hire out or get help with.

I do plan to span 36' with no support below (I may add stalls later but they are not planned for required support). My local truss company (Stark Truss) has quoted me about $176 piece for the trusses with no support and a 40 PSF load rating. That includes the "floor joist" engineered as part of the truss. That is not enough PSF to store a loft full of hay but it is plenty for most storage. This load rating is acheived with 24" centers. The second floor will be 8' ceiling and 16' wide with these trusses. Yes, they will be heavy due to the size of the material. I could skip the second floor but it really adds a relatively small amount to the total barn cost while giving my lots of options--even a spot for the children's guitars and drums!! Also my wife wants it with the second floor...enough said there! The barns she grew up with all had a second floor.

 

[jdmar]

IF the weather holds, I should get the footer in tomorrow(actualy later this AM). The weather has cancelled those plans for about 5-6 days so far...project not started and already running behind! I hope I do not run into bad soil issues-my test holes all found good soil but I only dug 6 holes. Then the masons will get the CMU wall up--not worth me doing that part by myself. I hope to then get fill in to level the floor area and start the walls.

Wednesday at noon the electric company comes out and gives me the bid for the electric service-- I am REALLY afraid of that! They say they work up the cost and then I am responsible for 40% of it. I can frame without electtric using a Paslode Impulse but I certainly want some electric eventually.

If I didn't say before...I do not have any zoning/inspections issues here at all. Only the electric will be inspected. I have no problems with the inspectors, I just hate the wait that sometimes occurs.

I will try to get some pics when we get going. This barn will NOT be a fast build since I work full time also and two other jobs!

Thanks for all the ideas.
Peter

 

[jdmar]

Well, the footer got poured. Yes they poured using the dirt as walls. I have heard reasons to and not too. It has stayed wet since pour with only a dusting of dirt on the surface. At its smallest it is 25" wide by about 8" deep. One portion is just about 48" deep the other is about 22" deep (below ground level. Frost level here is 38" per zoning. The low( 22") spot is being filled with dirt on both sides almost another 2' so all will be well below frost level.

That may seem a funny way to do it--pour then fill, but I have low level muck soil and this is the only place for a barn. so I want all higher than surrounding grade and need to add some fill on the low side. I can also add an extension later for animal and be sure their feet stay dry.

The picture that looks like the footer is on grade is deceiving. The bottom of the footer is actually about 2' below the surface--just doesn't look that way in the pic.

Now I will try this photo thing. I have done it before but now have new camera, new program, and new computer!!

 

[jdmar]

Hey it worked! And it automatically did the "thumbnail thing." The nice brush hogged area is the work of my wonderful wife...not me. I guess it is fair the share seat time.
Peter