Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[California]

So how do a towns streets exist?

That's socialism! Be very afraid!

 

[airbiscuit]

Speaking of socialism - from Wikipedia ...

The Rural Electrification Act of 1936, enacted on May 20, 1936, provided federal loans for the installation of electrical distribution systems to serve isolated rural areas of the United States.

The funding was channeled through cooperative electric power companies, most of which still exist today. These member-owned cooperatives purchased power on a wholesale basis and distributed it using their own network of transmission and distribution lines. The Rural Electrification Act was also an attempt made by FDR's New Deal to deal with high unemployment

This is how we get our power in rural Wisconsin. The customers are the owners. It was a godsend that helped electrify America when corporations wouldn't.

 

[airbiscuit]

To me, that cartoon says Get Rid of DIRTY COAL!

 

[California]

To me that cartoon says Get Rid of DIRTY COAL!

The end is in sight! America's largest coal company just went under.

Murray Energy joins growing list of coal companies to declare bankruptcy

At least seven coal companies have filed bankruptcy this year ... dozens of coal plants have closed over the last few years. The waning demand for coal comes as consumers shift to cleaner and cheaper sources of power such as natural gas and renewables.

more than 50 coal plants have closed since the 2016 election. this past April renewable energy sources like solar and wind farms provided more of the US electricity than coal ...

Murray is a known critic of climate change. ... he told CNBC that global warming is a hoax claiming that 4,000 scientists told him so.

 

[Grumpycat]

View attachment 627190

To me, that cartoon says Get Rid of DIRTY COAL!

It is a cartoon full of ignorance. I'm happy to drive my Tesla on coal. What else are you going to use coal for, can't eat it?

You are most welcome to visit the EPA.gov websites and do the math for yourself. Its a bit hard because unified units were not used last time I did this. But go search for carbon emissions per kWh for coal fired electricity in the USA. Go to the fueleconomy.gov site for emissions of EVs and your favorite carbon burners. And while there note the kWh/mile consumption of the EVs.

With the above data someone with 9th grade math skills should be able to align the units and calculate how much carbon emissions are emitted from the coal plant per mile the EV is driven. Is an exercise you should do for yourself else it won't have any meaning or understanding if someone else just throws the numbers out at you.

My Tesla Model S draws 380Wh/mile (0.38kWh/mile or 2.63 miles/kWh for those who can not convert units) from the power grid. Only the Model X consumes more. If all my Tesla power came from an average American coal fired power plant then the emissions are about the same as a 30-32 MPG gasoline automobile. "That dastardly dirty coal! Its black! It must be dirty!"

On the other hand it is trivially easy to operate my Tesla on nuclear, hydro, solar, coal, oil, natural gas, whatever. No massive distillery needed to make the bad compromise known as ethanol.

 

[3930dave]

Speaking of socialism - from Wikipedia ...

The Rural Electrification Act of 1936, enacted on May 20, 1936, provided federal loans for the installation of electrical distribution systems to serve isolated rural areas of the United States.

The funding was channeled through cooperative electric power companies, most of which still exist today. These member-owned cooperatives purchased power on a wholesale basis and distributed it using their own network of transmission and distribution lines. The Rural Electrification Act was also an attempt made by FDR's New Deal to deal with high unemployment

This is how we get our power in rural Wisconsin. The customers are the owners. It was a godsend that helped electrify America when corporations wouldn't.

Some of those areas still benefit from what was put in place then. The maximize profit situation today that affects many other areas..... part of my interest in being off-grid.

Rgds, D.

 

[California]

... If all my Tesla power came from an average American coal fired power plant then the emissions are about the same as a 30-32 MPG gasoline automobile.

Here's a chart from Forbes with equivalent gas mpg considering the various energy sources in various states. YMMV .

It says 80mpg average across the US and you can infer over 100 mpg average in the west coast states likely due to plentiful hydro. Source, and more detail, are in links I mentioned in Post #178.

Edit: I see Forbes inactivated that link a few minutes after I referenced it. Here's what was visible here for a short while. In case you can't see it here, this is the original:

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/.../energyinnovation/files/2018/03/US-EV-mpg.jpg

 

[Grumpycat]

Here's a chart from Forbes with equivalent gas mpg considering the various energy sources in various states. YMMV

What does that chart purport to say? It makes no sense whatsoever. Just like the coal gas pump cartoon.

The EPA has another faux number: MPGe. Boils down to “miles per BTU”. This is not a valid means of comparing ICE to EV because you can not efficiently power an EV with gasoline, and can not power an ICE with electricity.

Back to what I have said previously: the amount of power or efficiency doesn’t really matter. The cost is what really matters. The cost accurately represents the resources consumed to bring the energy to you in usable form. Includes cost of capital, man hours, and scarcity of natural resources. Miles per dollar is the important number. Diesel advocates tout MPG because they don’t want to admit their fuel costs 25% more than gasoline.

EV as with diesel has an initial upfront cost disadvantage vs gasoline. Math gets complicated determining which has advantage. The only absolutely wrong answer is for government to pick winners. Choice is good.

 

[California]

What does that chart purport to say?

... the amount of power or efficiency doesnt really matter. The cost is what really matters. The cost accurately represents the resources consumed to bring the energy to you in usable form. Includes cost of capital, man hours, and scarcity of natural resources. Miles per dollar is the important number.

EV as with diesel has an initial upfront cost disadvantage vs gasoline. Math gets complicated determining which has advantage

The chart as I understand it shows how many miles are attained, per carbon emissions, in providing EV 'fuel'. Some states use near 100% coal/petroleum/natural gas to generate the electricity and as you noted EVs there use about as much carbon fuel per mile as an ICE. Other states have more hydro or other renewables so their electricity results in less carbon burned per mile of EV travel.

Miles per dollar paid for fuel is a significant measure, however illness caused by pollution is a cost that is real but isn't recognized in that calculation. Likewise, the greenhouse gas caused global temperature rise that the Greta generation fears, or the military cost for example in Syria right now to 'Preserve Our Energy Future'. We could ignore the entire Middle East like we ignore for example Somalia, if we weren't dependent on the oil there to help maintain the stability of our economy.

Transition to EV's will be more valuable to some people than others. China and India are far ahead because they are choking on emissions and are force to do something. The US, not so much, but states where gas is $4/gallon and hydro electricity is cheap, are more likely to be early adopters.

 

[DarkBlack]

New Hampshire is natural gas pipeline restricted. During cold winter days, NG to home heating gets priority over electricity generation by law. This means the local coal generator comes in line plus oil generating.
People thinking you are saving the planet, by charging your batteries are s bit misinformed, as in the above example, you will be causing more coal and oil to be burned at these power plants during the winter, which is the worst time for air health.