Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

Sounds like you are a responsible electricity consumer 800kwh is a good number for grid tied! We are at about 450kwh. The girl in the posted video used 2400kwh In a month!

I am not necessarily off grid by choice…I am far enough away that it made more sense to go off grid than pay the USFS $15k for a purple spotted frog ecological impact study to drop a power pole over 50 ft of USFS property. Then we had another few miles to drop poles, on our dime. Total cost was about $45k. I just told them to shove it and went off grid. We don’t regret it.

Oh and congrats on 1000 posts! Now on to 10000.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

German start-up offers 5.2 kWh AC battery that works without inverter

Sax Power has developed a new residential battery which it describes as a game-changer in the battery technology.

pv-magazine-usa.com

I never heard of a DC battery that could output AC. So is the inverter built into the battery?

 

[Grumpycat]

That $10,000 surcharge will never show up at Kelley Blue book and the other price guides. I'm not sure for tax purposes if it will be taxed or not taxed at the state level.

You pay vehicle sales tax on everything the dealer adds. Later you pay property tax on the price you paid for the life of the vehicle.

40 years ago most new Porsches sold in the USA did not come with a car radio because most states charged a recurring yearly property tax based on what the dealer sold, vs the radio you buy at Crutchfield.

 

[Grumpycat]

German start-up offers 5.2 kWh AC battery that works without inverter

Sax Power has developed a new residential battery which it describes as a game-changer in the battery technology.

pv-magazine-usa.com

I never heard of a DC battery that could output AC. So is the inverter built into the battery?

Yeah. “Journalists” are dumb-dumbs. Idiots, even. Believe anything they are told do long as it is something they want to believe.

“According to its specifications, the battery stores direct current and can deliver both alternating current and direct current. The conversion is not carried out by transistors such as IGBTs or MOSFETs, but via the software of the battery management system.”

Just what do they think the BMS uses to switch electricity?

“It also increases efficiency, since the conversion is purely electronic”

well, “Duh!”

Between the lines the BMS switches battery cells in/out in different combinations to form the sine wave output. Lots and lots of expensive high current semiconductor switches. In actuality this is one of the oldest EV motor control schemes. Rheostat is another. In 1979 a converted EV UPS brown truck served a route in Huntsville AL using contractors contactors (big relays) using this scheme.

In no way is this battery without an inverter.

 

[3930dave]

She is in the city of Los Angeles. Her bill shows 3 tiers .17, .23, and .24 per Kwh.

I didn't watch the vid either.... but if Cali has anything like the games played here, the real cost is way higher.

What I call fairy-tale fees get added on top of the (Consumption X Quoted Rate)....... Things like "Fee for using electricity, on a day ending in Y" etc.... , before the "final" taxes get assessed.

I'll never teach school, but if I did, I'd use one of these bills to illustrate the Power of Compounding, to a Grade 4 class.

On my bill, I usually leave out the Provincial tax and federal VAT, and divide that lesser $ amount by the actual kwh (not the Adjusted kwh) used.

Don't try that ^, if you have any underlying BP problems....

Rgds, D.

 

[Jchonline]

German start-up offers 5.2 kWh AC battery that works without inverter

Sax Power has developed a new residential battery which it describes as a game-changer in the battery technology.

pv-magazine-usa.com

I never heard of a DC battery that could output AC. So is the inverter built into the battery?

Very interesting find. To answer your question yes they are converting the DC to AC with the BMS, which is a “Battery Management System” that all Lithium Cobalt and Iron Phosphate batteries have. Sounds like they use additional software to do this. The real measure is always cost per kWh. These aren’t bad, but they are more than DC LiFePO (LFP) batteries. So the efficiency of a good inverter is 90%..so this claims 99%. That is a 9% gain in efficiency which isn’t bad. But if it costs 15% more…it isn’t worth it. Space is also a consideration, dimensions look similar to existing LFP options.

The second very important function an inverter provides is a Genset, or interface with a generator to kick it on if the batteries need to be recharged (say if a multi day snowstorm with no Sun, etc). It doesn’t sound like this battery can do that by itself…so it wont be useful for true off grid.

Still, I like the new ideas. A 9% efficiency gain is nice…I just wish they could do it with an inverter that has generator control instead. The discharge current is also a bit low at 20A, but I would need to see more supported configurations/specifications to confirm it is an issue.

I suppose we should also address the question with regards to its impact on EVs as that is the OP. None, as all power is DC in current EVs.

 

[Grumpycat]

Quick answer at 5:21. At 23 cents per Kwh - 700 miles - $36.14

162 kWh for 700 miles is an exceptionally good 230 Wh/mile. EPA rates the Model 3 at 260 Wh/mile. I believe she could be beating the EPA rating, I do, but not on the inefficient 120V 12A charging mode which according to TeslaFi (a similar Tesla monitoring app) is only 70% efficient on my Model S.

She says the middle tier is appropriate for car use but if she did not use the car tier 3 is where the consumption would disappear. Only 1¢ more, but precision is necessary.

Furthermore, the price of gasoline at the pump includes state, federal, and local taxes, including sales tax. Her electric bill adds a 10% City of Los Angeles utility tax on top of the tiered rates.

So, 24¢ plus 10% is 26.4¢ times 162 = $42.77.

If an ICE comparable to the Model 3 gets 30 MPG then 700 miles us 23.3 gallons for $42.77 then gasoline would have to be $1.833 to equal her cost to fuel the Model 3.

I don’t believe her numbers are accurate. Her app relies on the car reporting it’s use and her numbers more closely resemble power-from-battery, not power-into-battery.

EPA says 260 Wh/mile grim the grid. That is power provided to the vehicle, same as the gallons pumped. 700 miles at 0.260kwh/mi is 182 kWh times 0.264$/kWh = $48.01. Or $2.058/gallon for that 30 MPG ICE to equal.

Yup, EVs are totally impractical. Cost too much to operate! Will never catch on!

I pay $0.10/kWh after all taxes. Gasoline would have to be $0.78/gallon to be as cheap as driving a Model 3.

 

[Grumpycat]

Very interesting find. To answer your question yes they are converting the DC to AC with the BMS, which is a “Battery Management System” that all Lithium Cobalt and Iron Phosphate batteries have.

Not really. All users of batteries need a BMS but a BMS is not an included feature of most batteries.

Those selling lithium retrofit starter batteries have learned they have to provide some sort of emergency protection system to prevent the typical idiot from destroying the battery. They call it a BMS in that it provides some cell balancing. Mostly it disconnects if some idiot decides to test the battery by sparking jumper leads. Or from a deep discharge which will utterly kill lithium cells.

 

[txdon]

Does anyone know what she was talking about when she said she could get a cheaper rate if she put in another meter?

Each meter would only show half the total electricity used and the rate per Kwh would stay in the bottom tiers.

 

[Grumpycat]

Each meter would only show half the total electricity used and the rate per Kwh would stay in the bottom tiers.

No, that makes no sense. The plan requires a T.O.U. meter be installed with nothing but the EVSE attached. Not the “EV charger”, which is inboard the car, but the Electriv Vehicle Servicing Equipment, which is nothing but a glorified super safe extension cord.

Her existing home meter remains just the way it is.

She would only get a discount for use in the off-hours during the night when contrary to what EV haters claim, the power grid has huge surplus of capacity. A 2.5¢ discount is a pittance for the excess which is available.

California has been forcing T.O.U. billing on everyone for everything but in typical authoritarian power hungry (ooh, I punned!) the scheme only increases the real cost of power for most everyone. Yes, the rates are less at night but you can not time shift your air conditioning.