Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,131  
There's a pivotal day in everyone's life when they're about 17 years old. One day living at home, free food...carefree. Then they buy their first car and it's all over.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,132  
Better get your order in today if you want an F150 with the Power Stroke diesel:


Apparently with it being $500 more expensive than the 3.5L PowerBoost V6 hybrid, nobody wants the diesel any more.
I did know they even ever offered it.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,133  
I bought our 93 Suburban for $5K 14 years ago. I've put $1K in repairs into it. So $6K total over 14 years for my daily driver. I could sell it tomorrow for $1K. So back to $5K for 14 years, or about $357 per year for a vehicle.

Just replaced it with a 2003 Suburban. We'll see how long that one lasts.

If you saw me driving around in the rusted out 93 suburban, and were the type to judge a book by its cover, you'd probably lump me in with "that group" too.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,134  
That's an extra $100 in what is essentially a solar tax, not an extra $100 vs not having solar at all. IOW, his bill will go to about $100 per month vs the $3 per month he was paying before, which was with him providing power back to the grid, not taking. Considering all the complaining about the grid needing to be updated and how we're thinking about paying trillions more in taxes for infrastructure, you'd think we'd want more people generating their own power, not less. But then that assumes your goal isn't to support and maintain the local electric monopoly.

This will continue to be a problem as more people move to solar. The existing bureaucracies and government regulators will fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo, which means maintaining grid and production these customers may not even use, and if they do, will use less over time. The solution for homeowners of course is to go off-grid and tell the electric companies to pound sand, which I'm sure many will, although eventually governments will likely try to impose a general 'electric grid' tax on all citizens whether they use grid-connected power or not, all in an effort to maintain current cash flows. After all, when 90% of your customers leave to generate their own power, how much would the remaining 10% have to pay to keep the system in place? They won't be paying 10 times more that's for sure - they wouldn't stand for it - so you know where that money will be coming from.
Residential solar grid-tie subsidies and the utility customer death spiral are major concerns in some circles.

You are absolutely right that as solar gets cheaper, and to the extent that batteries are affordable, those with means will go off-grid and ditch their utility connections. This means fewer houses per mile of electrical wire and fewer KWh's per hour of maintenance labour. That means more expensive power, which will drive more people to go off-grid.

Charging people to not use utility power only goes so far, especially since it's the wealthiest who will change first.

The reason this is related to residential grid-tie subsidies, where the utility buys power from residential solar installations are more than wholesale power rates, is that few people take the time to figure out how much of the monthly electrical bill is for the power, how much for the delivery, and how much for reliability.

Most of the time, wholesale electricity rates are one single digit cents per KWh. With solar power the wholesale rates often go negative during the early afternoon, only to shoot up just after the solar passes its peak production. People expecting to get paid residential rates (ie. net metering) with grid-tie systems are either going to be disappointed, or subsidized by people without solar systems. The wholesale rates are simply too low.

Then there's delivery, really the most expensive part. Maintaining all those hundreds of thousands of miles of high power wiring and transformers is expensive. For grid-tie solar to be sustainable, the wiring to homes needs to be upgraded and that use paid for. I fully expect the day when grid-tie systems must pay a delivery charge per-KWh supplied to the grid.

In a grid-tie system, the homeowner is a part-time energy supplier and in the long run the accounting needs to match that reality. Anything else either requires never-ending tax payer money, or will cause utilities to become unviable as businesses. That'd be very bad when the next high-demand, low-supply week comes along. Reliability in the face of just about any scenario costs real money.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,135  
I predict they will react as follows —- raise premiums and eliminate coverages.

MoKelly
And in some cases shift some high risk properties to the FED and therefore taxpayers

from article below

after Hurricane Michael ravaged the panhandle in October 2018, private insurers paid only 3.8% of the flood claims, according to an E&E News analysis of state and federal records. The insurance companies paid 169 flood claims, worth $9.7 million, related to Michael, according to data published by the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation in October.

The NFIP paid 4,270 claims, worth $224 million, related to the Category 5 storm, according to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which runs the program.

The small number of flood claims paid by private insurers in an area where they have a large presence suggests "there was some cherry-picking going on," said Robert Hunter, director of insurance at the Consumer Federation of America and the former Texas state insurance commissioner.

 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#3,136  
Residential solar grid-tie subsidies and the utility customer death spiral are major concerns in some circles.

You are absolutely right that as solar gets cheaper, and to the extent that batteries are affordable, those with means will go off-grid and ditch their utility connections. This means fewer houses per mile of electrical wire and fewer KWh's per hour of maintenance labour. That means more expensive power, which will drive more people to go off-grid.

Charging people to not use utility power only goes so far, especially since it's the wealthiest who will change first.

The reason this is related to residential grid-tie subsidies, where the utility buys power from residential solar installations are more than wholesale power rates, is that few people take the time to figure out how much of the monthly electrical bill is for the power, how much for the delivery, and how much for reliability.

Most of the time, wholesale electricity rates are one single digit cents per KWh. With solar power the wholesale rates often go negative during the early afternoon, only to shoot up just after the solar passes its peak production. People expecting to get paid residential rates (ie. net metering) with grid-tie systems are either going to be disappointed, or subsidized by people without solar systems. The wholesale rates are simply too low.

Then there's delivery, really the most expensive part. Maintaining all those hundreds of thousands of miles of high power wiring and transformers is expensive. For grid-tie solar to be sustainable, the wiring to homes needs to be upgraded and that use paid for. I fully expect the day when grid-tie systems must pay a delivery charge per-KWh supplied to the grid.

In a grid-tie system, the homeowner is a part-time energy supplier and in the long run the accounting needs to match that reality. Anything else either requires never-ending tax payer money, or will cause utilities to become unviable as businesses. That'd be very bad when the next high-demand, low-supply week comes along. Reliability in the face of just about any scenario costs real money.
With buy back rate of 1.5 cents per kilowatt doing a grid tie does not add up locally. I think 1.5 cent is the rate TVA charges our local utility.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,137  
I bought our 93 Suburban for $5K 14 years ago. I've put $1K in repairs into it. So $6K total over 14 years for my daily driver. I could sell it tomorrow for $1K. So back to $5K for 14 years, or about $357 per year for a vehicle.

Just replaced it with a 2003 Suburban. We'll see how long that one lasts.

If you saw me driving around in the rusted out 93 suburban, and were the type to judge a book by its cover, you'd probably lump me in with "that group" too.
Out here, in spite of our humidity/rain, a 1993 vehicle would not be rusted out. That said, a 2003 leapfrogs you past my 1999. :cry::cry::cry:
You spoiled kid, always have to have the newest and best :cool:
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,138  
I bought our 93 Suburban for $5K 14 years ago. I've put $1K in repairs into it. So $6K total over 14 years for my daily driver. I could sell it tomorrow for $1K. So back to $5K for 14 years, or about $357 per year for a vehicle.

Just replaced it with a 2003 Suburban. We'll see how long that one lasts.

If you saw me driving around in the rusted out 93 suburban, and were the type to judge a book by its cover, you'd probably lump me in with "that group" too.

I sold my suburban with over 300k on the clock and still going. It leaked oil from the rear main pretty bad and I didn’t want to drop the trans to fix it is the biggest reason I sold it. Up until the purchase of my F-750 my trailers were worth more then my vehicles lol.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #3,139  
Another 2019 Chevy Bolt has burned, this one after receiving the "final" update.

So much for the final fix.
 
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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#3,140  
Another 2019 Chevy Bolt has burned, this one after receiving the "final" update.

So much for the final fix.
But it is finally fixed. :)
 
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