Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Jchonline]

In Texas, driverless trucks are set to take over roads

If anyone in TX sees driverless semis please post a note.

Yes so I can stay off the road that day! Grew up in TX and we had some crazy drivers!

 

[Jchonline]

I think people need to drop the range concerns at this point, when a vehicle can get over 300 miles on a charge, that covers prolly 98% of all people. I almost never empty my entire tank in one day, and if i was going to, I'd prolly take another vehicle. I drove 1k miles last week to and from work, and even in that scenario driving home everyday, the ev would have been filled.

people are grasping at straws, don't want one, don't buy one. I don't live within 20 minutes of a gas station, I would get a ev alone for that reason.

Not me. I need to get about 500 miles (hard miles up mountains, etc) on a tank otherwise I have to pay 25% more for fuel. I need 750 in an EV (because they overstate by probably 30% if you include highway speeds, AC/Heat). Also no freaking way I can stop and wait for an hour for the battery to charge…there are no charging stations to be found at 9000 ft….. No go. In fact most of my driving situations would not be good for current EVs. I need a EV equivalent of a F-250 diesel (torque and pulling capacity) that can go 400 miles on a charge towing max Allowed weight (just below CDL Limit). Once they get one I can charge in 10 min…I’m in.

However I am sure 95% of the population can use it.

 

[Jstpssng]

I think people need to drop the range concerns at this point, when a vehicle can get over 300 miles on a charge, that covers prolly 98% of all people. I almost never empty my entire tank in one day, and if i was going to, I'd prolly take another vehicle. I drove 1k miles last week to and from work, and even in that scenario driving home everyday, the ev would have been filled.

people are grasping at straws, don't want one, don't buy one. I don't live within 20 minutes of a gas station, I would get a ev alone for that reason.

Not me. I don’t allow my fuel tank to get below 1/2, especially this time of year. Too many things can happen. I’ve never been stuck in traffic for a newsworthy length of time, yet it’s not uncommon to set on the side of the road for an hour or more while an accident scene is cleared. If 250 miles into a 300 mile trip, that can be disastrous. How is range effected when pushing through 6 inches of snow?
I know that with a gas engine I get about 50-65% of the normal fuel economy because of the roads I drive. The EV power is transferred differently, so poor roads may not have the same effect on range.
How will they perform with 10 ply tires?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Could 1980s technology keep internal-combustion engines on the road? - Hagerty Media

Read enough automotive-related articles on the internet and you will be convinced the internal-combustion engine is being hunted with a fervor typically reserved for villains in Liam Neeson movies. Okay, that conclusion may be extreme—but it holds some truth. Regulations regarding emissions and...

www.hagerty.com

The comments points out the wishful thinking.

 

[Cub 7275]

Could 1980s technology keep internal-combustion engines on the road? - Hagerty Media

Read enough automotive-related articles on the internet and you will be convinced the internal-combustion engine is being hunted with a fervor typically reserved for villains in Liam Neeson movies. Okay, that conclusion may be extreme—but it holds some truth. Regulations regarding emissions and...

www.hagerty.com

The comments points out the wishful thinking.

Also highlights the shortsightedness of the EV fans. There are roughly 1.4 billion ICE vehicles in the entire world. It's a safe bet that ICE powered vehicles and equipment will be around for many decades to come, even if the EV utopian fantasy comes true. Its a simple numbers game: 1,446 million vehicles in the world being replaced by 100 million or so produced every year globally will take at least 15 years if only EVs were manufactured. And we know there will be years of transition before most of vehicle production can be switched to electric, if that even happens. The EIA projects that globally the number of ICE vehicles will peak in 2038!

So given that ICE powered machines will be around in the distant future, doesn't it make sense to continue to look for ways to improve ICE efficiencies? Especially so it the improvement can be easily implemented and potentially retrofitted to existing engines?

 

[Cub 7275]

Everyone who has tried that, failed. Consider https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company)

Every intellectual who knows everything due to deep thought processes (but has never ever had to make something work) thinks EVs need swappable batteries. Real world good EV battery costs $20,000. The only practical logistics is for one to subscribe to a battery subscription service who owns the battery you are using. That service has to pay all their own overhead, the capital cost of inventory plus units fielded with customers, and has to charge you the worst case wear and tear rates for your use. Intellectuals can not be bothered with these details.

Consider this: I pay $0.10/kWh at home to charge. Tesla only aims to break even on Superchargers where the local rate is $0.26/kWh. Totally self-serve without the machinery, battery, or technician on site, that is what they have to bill to break even on the equipment, power, and real estate. Electrify America is more expensive even funded by billions of VW fines, which Tesla is not.

At $0.26/kWh a Model 3 is cost equivalent of 44 MPG$ at $3.00/gallon. Nice but not really a home run. Enough to make up for the inconvenience on long days? Maybe not.

At $0.10/kWh you have an exciting 115 MPG$.

Typical EV sleight of hand. What is left out of that comparison are the road taxes we all pay at the pump. Here in MI, state and fed gasoline tax is 46.1 cents per gallon and we get to pay 6% sales tax as well, so sticking with the $3 per gallon price, add on another 15.3 cents for a total of 61.4 cents tax per gallon. The fleet fuel economy in the US is 24.9 mpg which comes out to $0.0247 or 2.47 cents tax per mile driven. (Pennsylvania is or was considering an 8.1 cent VMT )

So if I understand that comparison correctly, that for $3 of electricity that EV goes 115 miles, then here in MI that $3 goes up by an additional $2.84 in taxes and 115 miles now costs $5.84 for the EV. So with taxes included, $3 nets that EV about 59 miles. Still not bad considering the average ICE would cost $7.11 for 59 miles. Using the Tesla charger the with road tax numbers are $4.086 for 44 miles in the EV and $5.30 for the ICE.

While an EV avoiding road taxes is not a huge number by itself, roughly $350 per year, once you factor the 1.8 million EVs out there all ducking the road taxes, the number becomes quite large and is clearly not sustainable as even more EVs hit the roads.

 

[bnold]

Road tax is likely to tack on to registration cost at an ‘average miles driven’ somewhere around 15k miles/year I would guess at some point in the future. Those of us who drive significantly more will likely continue to benefit from that for many years to come.

My 216mi minimum commute costs less than 1 gal of gas.

Drove my truck last week for the commute (had to haul something, truck job), first fuel stop in over a month, 45gal of diesel and 4 gal of DEF didn’t feel so good.

 

[sd455dan]

Typical EV sleight of hand. What is left out of that comparison are the road taxes we all pay at the pump. Here in MI, state and fed gasoline tax is 46.1 cents per gallon and we get to pay 6% sales tax as well, so sticking with the $3 per gallon price, add on another 15.3 cents for a total of 61.4 cents tax per gallon. The fleet fuel economy in the US is 24.9 mpg which comes out to $0.0247 or 2.47 cents tax per mile driven. (Pennsylvania is or was considering an 8.1 cent VMT )

So if I understand that comparison correctly, that for $3 of electricity that EV goes 115 miles, then here in MI that $3 goes up by an additional $2.84 in taxes and 115 miles now costs $5.84 for the EV. So with taxes included, $3 nets that EV about 59 miles. Still not bad considering the average ICE would cost $7.11 for 59 miles. Using the Tesla charger the with road tax numbers are $4.086 for 44 miles in the EV and $5.30 for the ICE.

While an EV avoiding road taxes is not a huge number by itself, roughly $350 per year, once you factor the 1.8 million EVs out there all ducking the road taxes, the number becomes quite large and is clearly not sustainable as even more EVs hit the roads.

That is why some states charge an EV tax not subsidy when you register one , and they get that money Up front.
Here is a description of our states

Idaho's surcharge on electric, hybrid cars far exceeds their impact on roads

BOISE — Idaho currently penalizes electric vehicle owners with an extra registration fee that far exceeds their impact on roads, according to data presented to state lawmakers last week at

www.idahopress.com

 

[Oaktree]

people are grasping at straws, don't want one, don't buy one. I don't live within 20 minutes of a gas station, I would get a ev alone for that reason.

Trouble is, it's looking like at some point we won't have a choice.
If you live where you don't take many long trips and have a convenient way to recharge an EV might make sense. But it doesn't for everyone.

 

[LittleBill21]

Trouble is, it's looking like at some point we won't have a choice.
If you live where you don't take many long trips and have a convenient way to recharge an EV might make sense. But it doesn't for everyone.

im struggling to believe that will be a issue for at least 20 more years.