BCS Mower Experiences and Thoughts

[wstr75]

BCSSHOP called it correctly. These brush mowers are to be respected. My hired handyman was driving the Zanon 28" today and one of the blades launched. We cannot find it. Maybe it is circling the Earth. The bolt broke adjacent to the underside weld. The bolts are inserted and then the earthside (head side of the bolt) is welded over with a large weldment mass. The other two blades were not rotating about their bolt axis as they had grass/debris material sufficiently wedged to make them stiff and also appear to have slightly bent bolts. The mower had about 12 hours of hard use when this happened. In looking at the wear on the underside of the disk it was apparent the mower was set probably a wee bit too low as the welds holding the bolts in place were showing abrasion wear. Still, the welds were intact and were not the cause for the blade being thrown. My conclusions are:
1. This patch of land has scattered hidden rocks and plenty of 12mm (1/2 inch) to 18mm (3/4 inch) saplings leading to many hard hits.
2. My handyman who has been running (and ruining) the equipment is a hard charging fellow when it comes to clearing out property.
3. The cutter disk/blades was set too low and from looking at the remaining two blades probably led to many hard hits on rocks and grounded obstructions. A higher setting by 1 to 2" would have accomplished the same overall clearing/mowing quality and likely would have reduced the hard hits by maybe 80%. I blame myself on this height setting mistake.

By the way, I declared the project essentially finished with the Palladino needing a total overhaul and the Zanon out of action. A heck of a situation. The picture of the disk and missing blade is shown in the link below.

IMG_1573 | Flickr - Berbagi Foto!

Bill in NC

 

[Scooby074]

Subscribed!!

I dont have a BCS currently, but it is something ive been wanting for a long time.

One of my main uses will be brush removal so this is of interest to me. I cant believe there is such an issue with throwing blades.... This might change my interest in the BCS machines completely

 

[wstr75]

Jason, like BCSSHOP explained, a flail mower on a BCS is the ticket. Flail mowers are intrinsicly safe, mulch wonderfully and do just about everything one needs to do in dealing with brush, excepting viney stuff like old, mature, tree-climbing patches of Kudzu.

Bill in NC

 

[BCSSHOP]

Bill,

When I first saw your pictures of the Zanon Brush mower I thought it looked more robust that the BCS brush mower but looking at the damage to the other blades (fairly minimal in my opinion) I don't think the mower should have thrown a blade. The blades can swing 360 degrees and are quite short so an impact with rocks should have made a lot of noise but not broken. The fact than the other bolts appear to be bent I'd say that mower is not worth having. I'd return it since it is so new and stick with a flail mower. Then you'll sleep better at night.

When I was first shown the DelMorino 26" mower (sold by BCS) it was on a farm in Pennsylvania where I saw it mow quite well. I suggested to the person considering adding it to the BCS line that maybe he should try driving it over the pile of broken cinder blocks sitting next to the shop. His comment was that "That will destroy it!". I wish he'd done that so we would have learned how it breaks. BCS has now set the minimum cutting height at about 3 1/2" and use a similar disk mount for the blades but their bolts are replaceable. New bolts, washers and locking nuts come with the replacement blades.

Many years ago TroyBilt (don't laugh) offered up a demonstration of their then new Super Tomahawk Chipper/Shredder in very abusive conditions. The dropped 4x4's in the shredding chamber, shovels of crushed rock, a bucket of nails, bricks, broken concrete blocks, electrical conduit, reinforcement bars and heavy hand pruners all in the shredding chamber. Only the rebar stopped the machine but nothing broke. I still own two of their shredders. I now realize that the flail mower is a shredder on wheels set close to the ground.

Thank you Bill for sharing the experience with the Zanon.

 

[Scooby074]

Hi Bill. I know what your saying about the flails... but a rotary is better for the alders and brush i got to mow. If i had a ton of horsepower , then yes, a flail could do the same job.

What i currently do is rent a Billygoat or DR rotary (rather than rent annually i intended on buying a BCS). Ive never had issues with throwing blades. The absolute worst thing that could happen with a rotary is throwing blades. No way a machine should be built that weak that it will throw a blade, breaking belts, transmissions and engines are OK, but those blades better stay where you want them!!!!

I have a BX25 this year, so i'm not even sure I'll need a walk behind if I get a bush hog for the BX. There may be a few areas I cant get into with the tractor, but i can do them manually if its not worth renting a machine.

 

[joebobbill]

The other two blades were not rotating about their bolt axis as they had grass/debris material sufficiently wedged to make them stiff and also appear to have slightly bent bolts.

Bill in NC

I suspect this outlines the failure process. First, the blades stop rotating due to debris wedging itself under the blades. As the blades get progressively pounded, the wedge forces the blade up, bending the bolt. This weakens the bolt. Finally, the blade hits something stationary and the bolt pops off. If you find the blade, I'd predict the blade's attachment hole would be slightly bent, but relatively undamaged.

JoeBobBill

 

[wstr75]

JBB,
You may have this figured out. Stopping every hour of operation to clear debris and rotate the blades 360 degrees on the bolt may be a suggested maintenance step.

 

[farmerboybill]

Bill,

When I first saw your pictures of the Zanon Brush mower I thought it looked more robust that the BCS brush mower but looking at the damage to the other blades (fairly minimal in my opinion) I don't think the mower should have thrown a blade. The blades can swing 360 degrees and are quite short so an impact with rocks should have made a lot of noise but not broken. The fact than the other bolts appear to be bent I'd say that mower is not worth having. I'd return it since it is so new and stick with a flail mower. Then you'll sleep better at night.

When I was first shown the DelMorino 26" mower (sold by BCS) it was on a farm in Pennsylvania where I saw it mow quite well. I suggested to the person considering adding it to the BCS line that maybe he should try driving it over the pile of broken cinder blocks sitting next to the shop. His comment was that "That will destroy it!". I wish he'd done that so we would have learned how it breaks. BCS has now set the minimum cutting height at about 3 1/2" and use a similar disk mount for the blades but their bolts are replaceable. New bolts, washers and locking nuts come with the replacement blades.

Many years ago TroyBilt (don't laugh) offered up a demonstration of their then new Super Tomahawk Chipper/Shredder in very abusive conditions. The dropped 4x4's in the shredding chamber, shovels of crushed rock, a bucket of nails, bricks, broken concrete blocks, electrical conduit, reinforcement bars and heavy hand pruners all in the shredding chamber. Only the rebar stopped the machine but nothing broke. I still own two of their shredders. I now realize that the flail mower is a shredder on wheels set close to the ground.

Thank you Bill for sharing the experience with the Zanon.

You heard it here first, folks. John recommends owners of the Bladerunner to run it over a pile of broken cinder blocks. If it breaks, it isn't worth owning and you should return it to the dealer. I'm sure John will take in any Bladerunner on Warranty that your local dealer won't take. While you're at it, take your car into the local lumberyard and put enough lumber on the roof to build a 20 by 40 deck. If it wasn't built strong enough to take this, it isn't worth owning.

Seriously, I think you got a bad hired handyman, Bill. Nothing is foolproof to a dedicated fool. He HAD to have heard the damage he was causing to this mower while he was running it. If he was truly handy, he could have set it higher without you telling him. He had already wrecked your flail mower and was on his way to wrecking your 853. I wouldn't let him borrow your bicycle, let alone run powered equipment. You are a good, responsible owner and this would NOT have happened to you. Even with grass making the blade stiff, it would still swing away from an immoveable object.

I'm amazed that I'm the voice in the wilderness on this subject. Just about EVERY equipment manufacturer makes rotary rough-cut mowers. I have a John Deere MX10 mower and a 507 Gyramower for the 3 point on my tractors. I never mow lower than 4 inches in the pastures with either of them. In rough terrain, no mower should be set below 4 inches - I don't care if it's a flail mower, rotary mower, or sickle mower. You're just asking for trouble if you don't know whats hidden under the grass. After you get a feel for the area, you can make a second pass lower if you wish, but why?

I say again - If rotary rough-cut mower were as dangerous as stated, they would NOT be built. On top of rotary rough-cut mowers, millions of acres of hay in this country is now cut with disc mower/conditioners. Sickle mower/conditioners are obsolete and very few are even produced anymore. That's a lot of high RPM mower blades flying around every single day and very few accidents.

Flail mowers are great. They do a bang-up job in many mowing applications, BUT they cost half again or twice as much as a rotary mower. Sure, I'd love to sell only $1600 Berta mowers and John obviously loves to sell the lighter duty $2000 Bladerunners, but a responsible owner can easily and safely use $1000 or $900 Del Morino or Zanon mowers for many applications.

 

[wstr75]

Bill, I think everyone has right answers on this subject. Yes, brush mowers are safe if you are responsible and cutting at a proper height and taking care not to strike rocks and other large, high-mass objects. But if one is mowing a high brushy height area and encounters an unforeseen object like a big piece of metal, the blade inertia is going somewhere and it may not be nice if the object does not move and the blade does not move, either.

From this point on, if I am mowing an unknown area with high brushy quotient, my weapon of choice will be the sickle bar mower. After going through the area with the sickle bar, the big objects will be uncovered and then a brush or flail mower can go back over the area to do a more complete shredding and cutting job.
Bill in NC

 

[Scooby074]

The thing is a brush mower is GOING to find those hidden rocks and metal... Its the nature of the job. It HAS to be strong enough to withstand repeated run ins with that type of material.

I cant count the number of times ive hit large rocks with the rental machines i mentioned. And Im sure that every other renter has done the same!! In my experience they are no worse for wear.

Having to buy and use 2 or 3 attachments to do the job of a properly designed rotary defeats any efficiency of the BCS type machines considering I can do the job with a single machine.

 

[farmerboybill]

The thing is a brush mower is GOING to find those hidden rocks and metal... Its the nature of the job. It HAS to be strong enough to withstand repeated run ins with that type of material.

I cant count the number of times ive hit large rocks with the rental machines i mentioned. And Im sure that every other renter has done the same!! In my experience they are no worse for wear.

Having to buy and use 2 or 3 attachments to do the job of a properly designed rotary defeats any efficiency of the BCS type machines considering I can do the job with a single machine.

Hi Scooby,

Any mower used in areas with large rocks and pieces of metal is gonna get damaged if used in an unsafe manner. It doesn't matter if it says BCS, Grillo, Craftsman, DR, or Stihl. It's a matter of not sledgehammering into an area and knowing when you're abusing the machine by what the machine tells you as you run it. If you're a meathead, it's gonna be dangerous, no matter the brand or style of equipment. You can do all you want with a rotary rough-cut mower and expect a reasonable amount of safety when doing so IF YOU RESPECT THE MACHINE. Steel toe boots, long pants, long sleeved shirt, googles, hearing and eye protection are all absolutely necessary. Shin guards and foot guards are very good ideas as well. Also, keep your friends, kids, and pets completely outta the way. This goes for any attachment - sickle, flail, or rotary. The very rare broken blade isn't the only danger when it comes to mowing machines. Tossed rocks and sticks are much more common and can rip flesh and break bone, too.

I can assure you that a Grillo or BCS tractor with a 26 inch Del Morino mower will be as or more durable than a DR mower. Also, you don't need to buy three attachments to do a mowing job. John, Bill and I are kinda junkies on these machines and enjoy owning three tractors and 4 attachments that do similar jobs.

 

[Scooby074]

Thanks for the info Bill.

I may have jumped the gun, however SOME Italian and other European made equipment can be more "delicate" than their North American equivalent I wondered if the BCS rotary fell into this category.

 

[Bentleg]

The Italian stuff is anything but delicate.

 

[joebobbill]

>I suggested to the person considering adding it to the BCS line
>that maybe he should try driving it over the pile of
>broken cinder blocks sitting next to the shop...

This isn't such an odd suggestion.

I was mowing down some tall weeds, today. When I pulled the mower back, I had uncovered a pile of rocks. My mind immediately recalled the above quote.

That's what I have to do if I want to cultivate a limestone outcrop. It has its rewards. Grapes happen to be something that does really well in rocky soil.

JBB

 

[BCSSHOP]

Thank you JBB,

I was taken to task for suggesting such a thing but I want to know how the equipment fails and if it possibly creates a hazard to the operator or bystander. As the two-wheel tractors are getting to be more and more a consumer item run by people total unfamiliar such equipment we have to understand the risks and instruct users appropriately. I fully expect there are operators using the two-wheel tractor doing brush mowing shorts and sandals. While this sounds stupid some of these unaware users are wealthy folks who will sue us for big money if you sold the equipment (new or used), rented it to them or even loaned it to them.

I expect our favorite equipment will soon have to have been tested by independent testing laboratory like UL before it can be sold. I am very concerned about liability associated with our equipment and so is my liability insurance provider. Liability of operating, selling, servicing, renting, loaning or modifying would be an interesting thread hopefully written by someone much smarter than me.

My personal opinion is that no mower sold to untrained users should ever be possible to throwing a metal blade. Destructive testing is one way to learn what fails.

 

[wstr75]

Bush hogging with a 4 wheel tractor can be dangerous but usually only if the object bounces back off something and gets into the air heading towards the operator. A riding lawnmower in the open is not dangerous when it strikes something as the object just goes away from the operator. The only time I've gotten hurt on a riding lawnmower was an acorn hitting a tree and coming back into my face at high velocity. The point being made is the operator is not in the same plane as the blades and thus the objects being thrown are not normally coming at the operator.

However with a two-wheeled tractor or other walk-behind rotary mower, the operator is in the same plane as the blades. For a conventional lawn mower, this may not be a problem as the mower housing is rather close to the ground and absorbs the impact. A brush mower has a much larger open area between the housing and the ground, thus less opportunity for the accelerated object to strike the housing to lose energy.

Has anyone experimented with putting rear chain guards on a two wheel tractor brush mower in a manner like you see on DOT mowers?
Bill in NC

 

[leonz]

Hello

The Zanon 28" brush mower arrived this week and we put it to work mowing kudzu vines, briars and saplings on a hillside. It was on a BCS 853 with Lombardini diesel. The diesel seldom complained. The Zanon did a good job and large chunky items seemed to be expelled with relatively low energy for a rotary type mower. The owner's manual and the actual design do not jive as the owner's manual shows a traditional rectangular bar on the drive hub with two swinging blades. The actual mower has a disk with three swinging blades. The blades are mounted above the disk and each blade can rotate around on its securing bolt 360 degrees. This may explain what appears to be a lower expulsion energy of large chunky objects.

Untitled | Flickr - Berbagi Foto!
Untitled | Flickr - Berbagi Foto!
Untitled | Flickr - Berbagi Foto!

Bill in NC

Hello Bill,

The disc is actually what is called a stump jumper to which the cutting blades are attached to.

 

[leonz]

Thank you JBB,

I was taken to task for suggesting such a thing but I want to know how the equipment fails and if it possibly creates a hazard to the operator or bystander. As the two-wheel tractors are getting to be more and more a consumer item run by people total unfamiliar such equipment we have to understand the risks and instruct users appropriately. I fully expect there are operators using the two-wheel tractor doing brush mowing shorts and sandals. While this sounds stupid some of these unaware users are wealthy folks who will sue us for big money if you sold the equipment (new or used), rented it to them or even loaned it to them.

I expect our favorite equipment will soon have to have been tested by independent testing laboratory like UL before it can be sold. I am very concerned about liability associated with our equipment and so is my liability insurance provider. Liability of operating, selling, servicing, renting, loaning or modifying would be an interesting thread hopefully written by someone much smarter than me.

My personal opinion is that no mower sold to untrained users should ever be possible to throwing a metal blade. Destructive testing is one way to learn what fails.

Hello John,

The last time we chatted was either the woodsmans field days in Watkins or at the farm days- I think it was that day at the track when I said the palladino flail mower you were displaying was the safest type of lawn mower made.

Great minds think alike and thats why Like my towed flailmower for mowing and downing brush.

The big problem today is it is very hard to protect the consumer from himself as you will agree. The higher safety european standards for agricultural machinery and lawn mowers certainly bear this out.

 

[leonz]

Bush hogging with a 4 wheel tractor can be dangerous but usually only if the object bounces back off something and gets into the air heading towards the operator. A riding lawnmower in the open is not dangerous when it strikes something as the object just goes away from the operator. The only time I've gotten hurt on a riding lawnmower was an acorn hitting a tree and coming back into my face at high velocity. The point being made is the operator is not in the same plane as the blades and thus the objects being thrown are not normally coming at the operator.

However with a two-wheeled tractor or other walk-behind rotary mower, the operator is in the same plane as the blades. For a conventional lawn mower, this may not be a problem as the mower housing is rather close to the ground and absorbs the impact. A brush mower has a much larger open area between the housing and the ground, thus less opportunity for the accelerated object to strike the housing to lose energy.

Has anyone experimented with putting rear chain guards on a two wheel tractor brush mower in a manner like you see on DOT mowers?
Bill in NC

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Hello Bill,

Theproblem is the open throated design as the chains would tend to enter the path of the mower blades.

It would be simpler to attach pieces of conveyor belt to drape over the open portion of the rotary mower. this would accomplish two things aid in knocking down the brush before it enters the throat of the mower and reduce the potential for throwing an object as the belting would be the first thing it encounters as it is ejected from the mower housing.

 

[wstr75]

Leonz,
I like your design improvements regarding using multi-ply scrap conveyor belting material, but disagree at putting it at the front of the mower to push down the incoming brush. I prefer having the brush standing up to be cut than to be pushed down and not cut. Rather, I would put the guard at the rear of the mower to slow down objects heading backwards towards my feet, ankles and legs.
Bill in NC