begining welding

[greenthumb]

I know that a few weeks ago there were post about welding but I guess mine is a little differnt. I have never welded before. I am interested in learning how. I have seen campel huasfeild (sp) not sure if spelled right. priced between 200 and 275 for mig welders. I thing is was one that runs off 220 volts. I would be using it for I guess hobby. Just curious on thoughts. I a have tractor which need work or could build attachments and general workshop tinkering. I have a rather large metal scrap pile that the previous owner left behind so I am sure that metal art could become an event. any thoughts would be great

 

[s1120]

Take a class. I am going to do the same soon. If not, you run the risk of walking away becouse you can't do a good weld. I have done a bit of stick welding in the past, but when I got my Mig, I could not lay a nice bead to save myself.

 

[MossRoad]

Take some classes in MIG welding before you buy anything. With MIG you get a very clean weld with no slag to clean off. It is relatively easy to learn and a decent MIG welder can be had for under $500.00 with some of the cool accessories. It is a great thing to learn and you couldn't go wrong. One thing to look at when purchasing a welder is the duty cycle. Get the highest duty cycle that you can afford. You can weld longer and the welder will probably last longer as well.

 

[RJohnson]

Along with the great advice about taking a class, one thing you need to understand about MIG is that it is not as tolerant of rust, scale and dirt like stick welding is. All of the deoxiders have to be made into the metallurgyof the wire. But keeping the part you are welding on as clean as possible will make you welding alot easier, whatever process you are using.

Randy

 

[Spencer]

You may want to look into adult education classes in welding. Around here they have them for lower income individuals to help train them for a job. I am luckily not lower income so I had to pay for the class instead of it being free but it fit my schedule nicely compared to the community college. The teacher was great, he was so happy to have somebody there who really wanted to learn. Most of his students were either there to fufill there unemployment requirements or were ordered by a judge to go there.

Spence

 

[MossRoad]

I'd also get a MIG welder that can use both flux core wire and gas. It isn't that much more and makes the welder more versatile.

 

[GlueGuy]

I will second what Randy says. MIG is highly intolerant of weld contamination, although the welding process itself is one of the easiest to learn.

Under the advice of a local welder, I got an AC/DC stick welder that I will be learning on. It's a mongo welder (Miller, 300 amps). He felt that even though it's a little harder to learn than MIG, it is far more tolerant of screw-ups, and a lot cheaper. Since all my welding is of the "hobby" variety, and I don't intend on doing any real production, I went with his advise. Only time will tell....

 

[cowboydoc]

I think you made the right choice Glue Guy. For just occasional welding you will be fine with that. I've got a mig welder and pull my stick welder out all the time, especially on farm equipment because I don't have an hour to prep the surface. If you have any dirt, grease, rust, etc. on the surface your weld will be junk. I'd much prefer a stick for fixing dirty stuff. Don't get me wrong the mig is really nice and for clean stuff it can't be beat.

 

[MossRoad]

I never knew that MIG doesn't tolerate contamination well. In school(15 years ago) it was never mentioned, and all of the practice stuff we used was clean. Thanks for the info.

 

[therrien]

Mig welding can be done with good results on slightly rusty and weathered steel, as long as you use the correct wire and gas. I'm not sure what those are, but I use a chart that was sent with the welder. I also keep the proper wire and gas on the welder,because I try to use second hand stock where ever possible.
It's the same as choosing the correct welding rod for the job.

 

[woodmills1]

an inexpensive sand blaster goes a long way toward making welding easier. i have an old P and H stick welder and i can grind first then weld, but when i use my friends fancy wire feed gas shielded welder we always blast first.

 

[RJohnson]

What everyone calls MIG is actually Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW) and alot of people refer to it as hard wire. It is usually a solid wire with an external gas shielding to exclude the air from getting to the molten weld puddle. The nice thing about MIG welding equipment is that you can also use Flux Cored Arc Welding (FCAW) wire. FCAW wire is just like a stick rod but the flux is contained within a tube of metal istead of having the flux on the outside, like in stick welding. Because MIG wire is solid the "flux" has to be incorporated in the molten steel when it is cast at the mill. This makes the amount of "flux" to deal with dirty steels very limited and usually they will not weld through the same amount of contamination as either FCAW wire or stick rods will. That is why many people will grind or blast the area to be welded. Even new steel can have mill scale that can give GMAW wires a problem.
OOPS! Sounds like I got on my soap box and started giving the training class that I some times do at work. Sorry about that/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif.

Randy

 

[MossRoad]

When I took welding classes, they refered to MIG as Metal Inert Gas. There was no flux core wire at the time. You had to use the argon/mix gas for the shield. I just found out about the flux core wire that requires no gas about a year ago. Imagine my surprise!

So, why does the stick welder do a better job on dirty metal? More flux?

 

[skipper]

I would highly suggest taking a beginners class or there are videos and books available which will give you the basics, then just get out and play. I took welding in high school (a long time ago) and have always enjoyed doing my fabricating and having the freedom not to have to find someone to do a little welding for me. Be sure to purchase a quality helmet, my cheap one is really aggravating, esp. when I don't have two hands free. I have a Lincoln 220v stick, I use it to do my heavy and dirty stuff, and the intitial cost is low. Also, I purchased a 120v Lincoln wire welder (Home Depot). I have to say I love having the wire welder for portability. I can pick it up and go, just plug into a 120v outlet and we're off to the races. I don't like using it for anything over 3/8" , but it is great for tack welding and thinner material esp. sheetmetal.

 

[RJohnson]

MossRoad
That is correct stick, which the offical name is Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW), has more deoxiders and other scavengers built into the flux coating. With hard wire there are few elements that can be melted and incorporated into the finished wire. One that is most often used is silicon and when you are using MIG and see small brown deposits on the surface this is from the silicon in the wire. That is what makes FCAW so much more forgiving than GMAW. It has all of the fluxes you can use in a stick electrode but it is continuous and you can get great productivity out of it. Also you can have various compounds of flux materials that would be broken down in the smelting of steel, making it impossible to add them to GMAW wires.
Ut Oh! Here I go again.

Randy

 

[Corm]

<font color=blue>Ut Oh! Here I go again.</font color=blue>

Please, don't hold yourself back. I'm learning a lot /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Corm

 

[Anonymous Poster]

RJOHNSON, is there just one kind of stick welding, and is that what we refered to as just ARC welding in HS ? I am interested in a welder but dont know where to start, does that have to be plugged into a 220 amp outlet? Are there any that you would recommend staying away from ? I dont have any time to take a class ,and I am not sure which welder to get. I would appreciate any advice. thanks

 

[RJohnson]

Putty,
Your question is like asking what tractor to buy, the answer will depend upon too many factors to list here. But that won't stop me from trying to answer your questions. But the best way to do that is to ask you to answer a few first,
1) What do you plan on welding?
2) How much do you plan to weld?
3) What is your budget? How much cash are you willing to part with/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
4) What is your experience and knowledge level about welding? I know you said you did not want to go and take a course but it is really the best way to get started. The safety issues alone would justify it. Arc welding is bad for the eyes and prolonged skin exposure can give a radiation burn, just like a sunburn.
5) Do you need portability? This will help you decide if you need an engine powered power source or can plug it into your electrical outlets. And no you do not have to have a 220 voltage source but the 110 units may limit what you are able to do.
6) The type of welding you plan on doing will also determine the type of power source you will be needing.

If you can't answer many of these questions then a trip to the library and a little research on welding would be in order and then maybe I can direct you in a better direction. Hope this helps.

Randy

 

[MossRoad]

<font color=blue>the answer will depend upon too many factors to list here. But that won't stop me from trying to answer your questions. </font color=blue>

/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I love it! Keep on answering as much as you want. TBN is like free schooling! We don't have time for classes, but we'll sit here for hours learning!

 

[RJohnson]

MossRoad

Don't misunderstand me, I am no welder. I am just a dirt dobber just like some of ya'll/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif. I just had to wear a welding engineer hat for many years at work because no one else wanted to do it. Matter of fact I have to borrow my father-in-laws welding machine when I want to weld something. But I have welded with a varity of welding processes and seen a bunch more demonstrated. I believe that anyone who is fairly handy and has a place in the countryside needs a welding machine. It is one of those man toys, er... tools that you should have. And the problem is that sometimes our needs exceed our knowledge base. I would compare it to painting (which I despise). Almost everyone has painted at one time or another. I mean you can paint your house, your cat, yourself, your plants and your car but that doesn't mean that in every instance you have performed a good paint job. (and every time I paint I know it's not a good job/w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif). Welding is the same way, if you have never welded then I would strongly suggest you sign up for a course at a local junior college. They have great programs that are geared to beginners, and we were all beginners at one time or another. But welding can be a dangerous job and what is welded incorrectly can break and cause serious bodily harm. I would encourage anyone to seek out a knowledgeable welder to help you along.
There have been some great pictures of projects welded on my TBNer's so the potential is there. Enjoy learning to weld and keep on tractoring./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Randy