Best all around gun?

[westcliffe01]

You are correct in that coyotes attacking livestock are game to shoot, BUT if someone from the DNR finds you out and about on your land with a rifle without a deer permit and in the shot gun zone, you will be cited and have to defend yourself in court. This has been confirmed by direct questions in this regard to DNR officers. If you want to test the system, go ahead. The burden will be on you to prove that livestock were threatened and also on you to use a deer season legal weapon.

To the second point: OC is fine. Just not in deer season. The DNR officers will cite you. This has been confirmed by direct questioning of said DNR officers. They say that you will have to prove in court that you were not trying to poach game. I can't afford to play that game.

To the 3rd point, it is very simple to implement a 4 month waiting period or longer if the clerks office wants. There is only 1 FBI approved scanning finger print system in Jackson County that all law enforcement uses (for criminal cases they can roll them in ink). So the lady who is qualified to operate the scanner only works 1 day per week and the clerk gives you an automatic 2 month delay for your "appointment" to get your prints taken. So you are out 2 months before the prints are taken, then they go to the FBI, then the approval comes back, then it gets scheduled for the next gun board meeting. 4 months is it and the clerk is within legal limits, even though not following the "spirit" of the law. You can be sure they spoke to their legal council before they made all of those arrangements, don't you think ? Considering that the CPL is a fully funded process, it could be staffed so that it need not take more than 1 month and many other counties are well under a month, but that is not desired by Jackson County.

Hate to bust your bubble but.....

Wild dogs (coyotes) are considered a nusiance here and there is no season on them, anytime, anyplace so long as there is a real danger to livestock or game on private property....always.

Michigan has open carry, one of the few states, I might add. I just spent 4 days carrying my 44 smith on my hip, in the open, unconcealed. It's registered to me and yes I have a concealed carry and yes, I carry a pistol concealed when appropriate.

On a concealed carry, it's up to the discretion of the local gun board as to the issuance of a permit and 4 months seems like a protracted period. On completion of the NRA sanctioned pistol carry course and certificate, at least here in Monroe County, 90 days and it's a yea or ney. It takes time for the background check and the board only meets once a month.

I don't consider that excessive by any means.

Far as GR, it's not up to the local police cheif, he has to comply with state and federal laws. One reason it's advisable to keep abreast of laws and mandates that can restrict your second Amendment rights....always.....

Far as having a flashlight in your vehicle and 'shining deer'. 99% of law enforcement officers are professional and thinking individuals. I firmly believe that normal deduction would prevail.

Concider the fact that having a concealed carry has eliminated you from the also ran status of normal, everyday citizens. If you weren't law abiding, you'd never have obtained the carry permit in the first place.

When interacting with any law enforcement, I always state I have a concealed carry. It gives them insight into my character and my desire to remain law biding.

 

[Soundguy]

i'd move out of an 'armpit' like that place... would care if I had to take a loss to sell or leave a job.. i'd leave...

soundguy

 

[westcliffe01]

Yes, about $60k in the red on the home right now.. Only bought it after the market value dropped $50k to begin with. So my home has gone from $250k to $200k in 2006 to $140k now... About 20-25% of homes are for sale. Population in our township appears to have dropped by about 1/3 in the last 5 years. No new sources of work and new hires are driving from Detroit 50-70 miles 1 way.

Yep, those would be the reasons I am still here...

 

[Soundguy]

it's like that in many places.

where my MIL lives is actually an upsacle golf community.

she had 2 models for sale.. one on eithr side of her.

someone bought one at 150k, within a month, after the bubble burst, the POA sold the other one for 90K.. the other guy was furious...

where I work, half our crew drives in from about 50-70m away, another 25 % from 25-35m away..

soundguy

 

[RobertBrown]

You are correct in that coyotes attacking livestock are game to shoot, BUT if someone from the DNR finds you out and about on your land with a rifle without a deer permit and in the shot gun zone, you will be cited and have to defend yourself in court. This has been confirmed by direct questions in this regard to DNR officers. If you want to test the system, go ahead. The burden will be on you to prove that livestock were threatened and also on you to use a deer season legal weapon.

To the second point: OC is fine. Just not in deer season. The DNR officers will cite you. This has been confirmed by direct questioning of said DNR officers. They say that you will have to prove in court that you were not trying to poach game. I can't afford to play that game.

So, in s.e. Michigan you are guilty until proven innocent?
Seems like you would have to be caught with a dead deer for the state to try and prosecute.
Don't they have lawyers there?
Anyone with a rifle or pistol, or any weapon other than a shotgun....on their own property, during shotgun season, is guilty of poaching?
I don't see where that would stand up in court. I don't see where any jurisdiction would even try to prosecute without more evidence of poaching.
Does not make sense to me

 

[Soundguy]

yeah.. that'd be hard to swallo.. unless none of the law enforcement there have brains or spines..

 

[RobertBrown]

yeah.. that'd be hard to swallo.. unless none of the law enforcement there have brains or spines..

We must have very liberal gun laws here.

 

[Soundguy]

i think fl may have some of the best..

 

[westcliffe01]

DNR MI Website

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The rules listed below may not apply to those having a concealed pistol license or those specifically exempt by law from a concealed pistol license and who carry their handgun in accordance with their license or exemption.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Archery Deer Seasons
During the archery deer seasons, it is illegal to carry afield a pistol, revolver or other firearm while bow hunting for deer.
Exceptions: This prohibition does not apply to pistols carried under authority of a concealed pistol license or properly carried under authority of a specific exception from the requirement of a concealed pistol license. However, a concealed pistol license does not authorize the individual to use the pistol to take game except as provided by law.
Nov. 10-14
It is unlawful to carry afield or transport any rifle (including rimfire) or shotgun if you have buckshot, slug, ball loads or cut shells.
Exception: You may transport a firearm to your deer camp or to a target range during this period if the firearm is properly transported (see Transporting - Carrying Firearms and Bows and Arrows).
A resident who holds a fur harvester license may carry a .22 caliber or smaller rimfire firearm while hunting furbearers or checking a trap line during the open season for hunting furbearers or trapping furbearing animals. You also may target-shoot on your own property provided there is no attempt to take game.
Nov. 15-30 Firearm Deer Season
It is illegal for a person taking or attempting to take game to carry or possess afield a centerfire or muzzleloading rifle, a bow and arrow, a centerfire or black powder handgun, or a shotgun with buckshot, slug or ball loads or cut shells, unless you have in your possession a 2011 firearm deer, combination deer or antlerless deer license for the appropriate DMU, with an unused kill tag issued in your name, or a 2011 firearm deer, combination deer or antlerless deer license for the appropriate DMU issued in your name with an unused deer management assistance (DMA) permit kill tag or an unused managed deer hunting permit.



All Firearm Deer Seasons - Shotgun Zone
In the shotgun zone, all hunters afield from Nov. 15-30, and all deer hunters in this zone during other deer seasons, must abide by the following firearm restrictions or use a crossbow or bow and arrow. Legal firearms are as follows:

• A shotgun may have a smooth or rifled barrel and may be of any gauge.
• A muzzleloading rifle or black powder handgun must be loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute.
• A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

During the firearm deer seasons, a firearm deer hunter may carry afield a bow and arrow, crossbow and firearm. Exceptions:

• See Muzzleloading Deer Seasons above for restrictions during this season.
• From Nov. 15-30, a .22 caliber or smaller rimfire rifle or handgun may be used to kill a raccoon while hunting raccoons with dogs between the hours of 7 p.m. and 6 a.m.
• A .22 caliber or smaller rimfire may be used to dispatch coyote, fox, raccoon, bobcat and badger from Nov. 15-30 in the Shotgun Zone provided the firearm is loaded at the point of kill only.

License Requirement - Possession of Firearms and Bows and Arrows
Those taking or attempting to take game and in possession of a firearm, crossbow, slingshot or bow and arrow must have the appropriate hunting license with them and the identification used to purchase that license and exhibit both upon demand of a Michigan conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer or any other law enforcement officer. Those using a crossbow must obtain a free crossbow stamp annually.
A hunting license is not required when target-practicing or sighting-in a firearm at an identifiable, artificially constructed target, and there is no attempt to take game.

 

[5030]

I just got home from hunting and during the hunt, I openly carried my .44 S&W revolver, on my hip, in plain sight, everywhere, including to the gas station and to the resturant where incidentally, there were DNR officers eating as well. It didn't even raise an eyebrow other than a comment about what a fine looking 44 it was, and it is. It's the old style wood grip, blue steel, 'Dirty Harry' model, not that Eastwood ever shot a .44.

I've never had any issue with the DNR and there is a DNR post not a mile from out property up north so they all know me and my associates to be not only law biding but 100% legal and above board at all times.

Maybe it helps that one of our hunting party is a Federal Agent but then everyone looks the same in camo.

I will hunt again after Thanksgiving, this time with the .44 instead of a long gun. Easier to trudge in the snow covered woods with a pistol than a long gun. We need to do out part to keep the deer off the highways and the cars out of the body shops.

On the subject of best all around gun, I was given the opportunity to shoot a Savage Model 111 Long Range Hunter chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum at deer camp on Sunday with a Zeiss long range scope. No problems offhand shooting the Savage at 300 yards on a paper target. I suspect the round and the 111 is capable of upwards of 1000 yards with little bullet drop.

I'll be buying one this year for next season out west. Of note is the Savage is less expensive than the before mentioned Rock River and much more potent, but then the RR is an 'assault' type weapon and the Savage is a sporting firearm. Of course a 338 Lapua Magnum will assuredly 'assault' about anything you want it to.......:thumbsup:

I see you posted while I was arranging this post. We hunt in the DMU north of M46, north of the Muskegon River, not anywhere near the lower counties we reside in.

In clear conscience, I would never consider open carry anywhere around here. One, it's too populated and two, there are too many little old ladies who might have a heart attack.