Big announcement from GM !!!!!!

[Highbeam]

Except that the upfront cost for bigger tools means less money in the bank. A big penalty if you ask me.

Not necessarily, as workinallthetime pointed out a new half ton truck CAN cost more than a much more capable C4500 Kodiak. You don't save much money at all by buying the lighter duty but still full sized truck. Tool cost, the same, one much stronger.

 

[Highbeam]

Not to mention the much higher operating cost for the too-big tool.

Who told you that? The mpg of a duramax or cummins diesel is as good or better than any V8 gas powered full sized half ton. Often debated but most will agree that the costs are not "much" higher.

I tow a lot. I will tow my tractor and trailer tomorrow for 100 miles and get 10 mpg. My current uses would be more ideally suited to a 3/4 or one ton truck but my current truck is paid for and does the job. My safety margin is just pretty small which by some folks' logic means that I use the ideal tool since I utilize almost every bit of the truck's capability. Other folks would leave more of a safety margin and I tend to agree with them after towing heavy for the last several years.

Where is the penalty for having a more capable tool? Today there is none. Tomorrow there may be smaller diesel engines available with correspondingly lower fuel consumption which would be a clear penalty for too much tool.

 

[EquipmentJunkie]

I am looking forward to FINALLY having 1/2-ton diesel pickups again. Dodge, GM, Ford, and Nissan are all on the record as having 1/2-ton diesels coming for '09...model year '09 or just calendar year '09 is yet to be seen. With that much competition, it looks like a buyer's market.

What I am a bit concerned about is the fact that all of these new engines will be clean-sheet designs with no track record. The initial 1/2-ton diesel buyers could be well-acquainted with their local dealer's Service Department waiting room. I, personally, am willing to take that risk.

More than anything else, I am concerned that your average "Joe Stupid" will decide to buy a 1/2-ton diesel pickup to do a 3/4-ton pickup's work. Unfortunately, Joe Stupid is governed by the same physics laws as you and I. Will you be in Joe's path when he receives his first lesson on his 1/2-ton's panic braking ability with the 10,000-lb. trailer he hitched behind it?

 

[Toiyabe]

The operating cost of any full size pickup, diesel or gas, is greater than a car. If you use your truck mostly for things that a car can't do, that's fine. If, like most folks I see on the road, you use your truck mostly for things a car can do easily you are wasting money.

That's why I recommend using a car for car jobs and a truck for truck jobs. Just like you would use a utility tractor for plowing large fields and a push mower for mowing small lawns. Actually most people (though probably not many on this forum) would be better off having a car and renting a truck for the few times they actually need it.

 

[EquipmentJunkie]

The mpg of a duramax or cummins diesel is as good or better than any V8 gas powered full sized half ton. Often debated but most will agree that the costs are not "much" higher.

Where is the penalty for having a more capable tool? Today there is none. Tomorrow there may be smaller diesel engines available with correspondingly lower fuel consumption which would be a clear penalty for too much tool.

I agree. My '98 Ram with the 24-valve Cummins has delivered nearly 23-mpg over its last several tanks of fuel. That was commuting mileage, not highway...and my computing was pencil & paper method, not a trip computer.

Also, as my pickup gets older, the gap between a comparable '98 Ram gasser and my '98 Ram diesel widens. Diesels hold their value...the cost of entry is higher, but it comes back.

I wish that I could get a V6 diesel in a 1/2-ton that only produced 200-hp. and 350 ft./lbs. of torque. I want the fuel mileage. It looks like the hot-rodders will win out, however.

 

[Highbeam]

That's why I recommend using a car for car jobs and a truck for truck jobs. Just like you would use a utility tractor for plowing large fields and a push mower for mowing small lawns.

Come'on now. Yes, I agree that we all should have a lawnmower for mowing by the house and the big tractor for plowing. You can conceivably own both because the lawn mower cost 150$ and the tractor 15,000$. The fuel savings and wear and tear savings on the big tractor will pay for the lawnmower right away. The mower will last for several years and that makes this a good investment. A second vehicle is not going to be 1/100th the cost of a truck.

You'll spend 10s of thousands of dollars to buy that car for car jobs. So how long will it take to break even? The 10,000 dollar estimated depreciation that the car will suffer in one year will buy a lot of fuel for the truck. The mpg is not much better.

I won't spend 1000$ to save 100$.

 

[workinallthetime]

ok i think some how my comparison price wise of a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton got out of whack.
from the gmc.com
base mosel prices
1500 17,900 to 38,00
2500 24,500 to 40,500
3500 24,800 to 40,800

these prices are less options that you decide to go with, such as diesel powerplant, 4x4, navigation, ect....

point is you can have a 07 base model 1 ton with a d-max for about 30k, but i chose not to drive the base model anything. If we were all real thrifty then we could drive old clunkers and save lots of money, but im not into being in the middle of no where on the side of the road with expensive equipment sitting on a trailer waiting for the right crack head to steel it.

 

[Builder]

Not necessarily, as workinallthetime pointed out a new half ton truck CAN cost more than a much more capable C4500 Kodiak. You don't save much money at all by buying the lighter duty but still full sized truck. Tool cost, the same, one much stronger.

Show me.

When I went to buy a Kodiak 4500/5500 and they were 40-50K. I can get a 1/2 ton GM pickup for 20K. Matter of fact, I bought a 1500 auto/air 4x2 for $16,500 at the end of '05.

Maybe it can cost more if you buy the crewcab sunroof, leather seats, and every possible option, but I'd really doubt it.

 

[Builder]

I agree. My '98 Ram with the 24-valve Cummins has delivered nearly 23-mpg over its last several tanks of fuel. That was commuting mileage, not highway...and my computing was pencil & paper method, not a trip computer.

Also, as my pickup gets older, the gap between a comparable '98 Ram gasser and my '98 Ram diesel widens. Diesels hold their value...the cost of entry is higher, but it comes back.

I wish that I could get a V6 diesel in a 1/2-ton that only produced 200-hp. and 350 ft./lbs. of torque. I want the fuel mileage. It looks like the hot-rodders will win out, however.

Edmunds put out an article a while back with statisics showing that a diesel pickup with 100,000 miles will fetch $5,000 more than the same gas pickup with 100,000 miles in a private sale, slighty less as a dealer trade.

People criticize us for buying diesel pickups, but when you realize you can get almost all your upfront costs back after 100K, they might finally shut-up and listen.

 

[Builder]

The operating cost of any full size pickup, diesel or gas, is greater than a car. If you use your truck mostly for things that a car can't do, that's fine. If, like most folks I see on the road, you use your truck mostly for things a car can do easily you are wasting money.

That's why I recommend using a car for car jobs and a truck for truck jobs. Just like you would use a utility tractor for plowing large fields and a push mower for mowing small lawns. Actually most people (though probably not many on this forum) would be better off having a car and renting a truck for the few times they actually need it.

Not sure if I agree. If you had a one vehicle family of 5-6 people, with today's full size crewcab pickups, I think there's a lot of scenarios where if the father is say a contractor, landscaper, etc. and needs it for work and the mother stays home or commutes, it would be their best choice. Dad can use it for tools & work, then they can use it after work for a family vehicle.