Big Enough Truck?

[farmboy12]

Ohio has no such law that so many of you speak. At least as long as you aren't towing commercially. As long as I obey the traffic laws I can tow as much as I want behind any type vehicle up to the road limitations. If they make it law what will all the farmers do? They all tow wayyyyyy over their mfg specs.

Actually, I think Ohio has one of the most enforced hauling laws a we've dealt with. We got stopped because we were using straps instead of chains on a pretty antique tractor. These are some big straps, too.


Kyle

 

[wkpoor]

Actually, I think Ohio has one of the most enforced hauling laws a we've dealt with. We got stopped because we were using straps instead of chains on a pretty antique tractor. These are some big straps, too.

Who exactly pulled you over? I've called the HP and ask them questions about hauling including the chain issue. They said they only enforce the traffic laws and didn't know anything about proper loads and securing ect. I haul all my tractors with traps but I use 4" ratchet straps only to D rings both on the tractor and the trailer bed, not rapped around axles and the such. And my straps all have the new look, no bad or worn sections or grayed fabric.

 

[Builder]

Builder. Even 3-4 years ago many to most hot-shotters were non-cdl and just put a "Not for hire" tag in the window. Those days are gone. a dually pulling a dual tandem axle trailer is fair game these days.

jb

That's what I'm saying. I see hot shotters along the shoulder of the roads around here being pulled over & fined for being overweight-as they should. No pickup is safe to pull that kind of weight. If it was, the manufacturer would rate these trucks at 35,000 lbs, not 22-26,000 lbs as they do now.

Boats would be the same way. Just cause it's a boat, don't mean it's YOUR boat. If you can't prove to MVCE that it's your boat, then you're towing it for profit, and the fines are the same as if it were a load of coal.

Just because someone comes on this website and says "I've been pulling tractors, boats, cars, whatever behind my truck for 20 years and I can tell you it's safe" doesn't mean it's safe OR legal.

It's not. It's irresponsible and if you do it, sooner or later, you'll pay for your actions.

That's why I believe we should refrain from suggesting it's OK.

Heck, I think it's tough enough towing at or below your limit and keep everything safe and I'm a CDL driver!

 

[farmboy12]

Who exactly pulled you over? I've called the HP and ask them questions about hauling including the chain issue. They said they only enforce the traffic laws and didn't know anything about proper loads and securing ect. I haul all my tractors with traps but I use 4" ratchet straps only to D rings both on the tractor and the trailer bed, not rapped around axles and the such. And my straps all have the new look, no bad or worn sections or grayed fabric.

It was a county officer if I remember. May have been state. We used four 3" & 4" straps. Three 4" and a 3". We fastened them to the rub rails. But he specifically told us we need to use chains. We just didn't want to get rust on the pretty '51 JD MT. So, we did what he said, we just put the chains on top of the straps.


Kyle

 

[wkpoor]

All my antiques have plates made that bolt onto the sides somewhere with D rings welded on them so they are easy to strap securely or chain if you like. If you have to rap I've heard old firehouse works good with the chain ran through it.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Chirs, is that towing your boats? Rv's Boats and oddly enough horse trailers get the explicit OK to do what you want in the regulations in many states.

Towing with your truck, your trailer and your boat is ok about everywhere. You may still need a CDL if you cross 26k.

Also, once you cross state lines, you are subject to that states highway laws.

I don't know your state's laws. But I have emailed back and forth with one of the fine gents in snazzy blue suits that enfore the highway laws in your state. I'll PM you his email. He may or may not remember me, but he was always a very helpful resource. He is a working officer and may take a couple days to get back to you.

Builder. Even 3-4 years ago many to most hot-shotters were non-cdl and just put a "Not for hire" tag in the window. Those days are gone. a dually pulling a dual tandem axle trailer is fair game these days.

jb

Thanks John.

The problem is one guy will give you the ok and the next will say no way. What I have been told numerous times by a few different cops is that the rules do not apply unless you are for hire. I know it seems stupid and I will be the first to agree to that but that is what I am told. Been doing this for 20 plus years and never had one issue.

I do agree no matter if you are personal or for hire you are free game if any limitation is exceeded on the tow vehicle or trailer.

Chris

 

[john_bud]

Yeah, I too have gotten contradictory information from the police. Funniest was when 3 officers gave me 7 opinions on a question. I didn't know something technical and went to the state trooper station and we chatted for 2-3 hours. Very nice folks, especially when they are not afraid of getting shot, run over, dragged down the road, etc. They kept bringing up various statues and how they applied etc. So they had evolving opinions and contradicted themselves. It took calls to the state headquarters to get the actual factual.

Those were the officers that would be putting on a jump suit and crawling under your rig, not the normal speeding / red light cops. They were trained on this stuff and they used my question as an opportunity to learn more themselves. Seemed they had gotten bad information earlier on pulling over a class of "violators".

The name I gave you is (I think) one of the guys that trains the troopers on these hauling laws. Just because you haven't been pulled over and given a $3500 ticket, doesn't mean you haven't been at risk. I would still say to check with the contact and get his opinion as he will be able to quote statutes and regulations that apply. I'm harping on this as the laws changed in 1999 and the enforcement of them have been slow to be phased in. The phase in is resulting in what Builder posted about - hot shotters getting rectal enlargement tickets, farmers getting the same and even goof balls like me and you.

Here is a quote from the USDOT web page. You do know that the states can make laws more restrictive, but not looser than the federal standard, right?

Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.



You will note that there is not one "jot or tittle" about commercial, for hire, etc. Just weight. This is a change put out by the Clinton administration to appease the Teamsters as it means more people will either have to get a CDL or hire out the work to a (hopefully) union hauler.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well the current book I have here on the law specifically states the rules do not apply to boats, campers, and recreational vehicles as I stated before. I agree 2 guys in the same truck, one pulling a 15K camper and the other pulling a 15K trailer full of hay for his farm are treated different. The guy in the camper is fine, the guy with the hay can get a ticket in Indiana.

Chris

 

[Turbys_1700]

In North Carolina to be legal you must have CDL's for any trailer over 10K in weight. That's the law. DMV will pull you over and check you out. They do it all the time and people ignorant of the law get's ticketed.

The 26K threshold also is in effect.

The other stipulations are that you must have enough tagged weight on the truck and trailer and you must be under the axle ratings of both truck and trailer.

RV's, on the other hand, are never checked.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
Here is a quote from the USDOT web page. You do know that the states can make laws more restrictive, but not looser than the federal standard, right?

Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.



You will note that there is not one "jot or tittle" about commercial, for hire, etc. Just weight. This is a change put out by the Clinton administration to appease the Teamsters as it means more people will either have to get a CDL or hire out the work to a (hopefully) union hauler.

The only place I could find that quote is at
Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
which is a "summary" page for the COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986.

From the actual CMVSA 1986:

(5) Motor vehicle.--The term "motor vehicle" means a vehicle, machine,
tractor, trailer, or semitrailer propelled or drawn by mechanical power
used and on highways, except that such term does not include a vehicle,
machine, tractor, trailer, semitrailer operated exclusively on a rail.
(6) Commercial motor vehicle.--The term "commercial motor vehicle"
means a motor vehicle used in commerce to transport passengers or property--
(A) if the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or
more pounds or such a lesser gross vehicle weight rating as the
Secretary determines appropriate by regulation but not less than a
gross vehicle weight rating of 10,001 pounds;

From the Virginia (my state) DMV:

The following situations exempt operators of certain vehicles from the CDL requirements.
1. Operation of a vehicle for personal use only,
such as a recreational vehicle or truck to move
your personal belongings.

From Ct.

Definition of a Commercial Motor Vehicle

A commercial motor vehicle can be defined as:

* Vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds
* Vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver
* Vehicle designed to transport 11 or more passengers, including the driver, and used to transport students under the age twenty-one years of age to and from school
* Any vehicle transporting hazardous materials which is required to be placarded.

note "can"

So basically it depends on your state and it seems many do not define what a CMV is and post it where I could find it.

 

[LBrown59]

Classes ofLicense:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license
classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
***You will note that there is not one "jot or tittle" about commercial, for hire, etc. Just weight. This is a change put out by the Clinton administration to appease the Teamsters as it means more people will either have to get a CDL or hire out the work to a (hopefully) union hauler.

***In other word it's all about politics /Not safety.

 

[newbury]

***In other word it's all about politics /Not safety.

Actually I think it's more about poor writing on the Web.
I think whoever wrote that web page did not read the Act.

You'll note that the Act was done well before most people had computers at home other than peeps like me. The requirement for the CDL was written in 1992, before most peeps surfed anything other than water. The Act lays out the terms commerce. The licensing says there are 3 basic classes of licenses.
The requirement for the CDL is a requirement more aimed at defining standards so the states can issue licenses uniformly. So you don't get someone like me driving a loaded 40' semi across country delivering molasses in drums, with NO training other than having driven a 4 cyl. Toyota pickup. I could of easily turned it over if I wasn't careful.

I think I saw some states in my search that exempted farm vehicles and recreational vehicles in their description, but not trailers hauling personal property.

 

[john_bud]

[SIZE=-1]www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/training/gen_req.ppt[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

Has information in it. The Vague parts are what makes it "commercial".




[/SIZE]

 

[JohnDeere4300]

I'm thinking of buying a 25ft trailer with 10K tandem axles. If I have that trailer fully loaded (nearly 20K lbs.) will my F-250 with 7.3 Power-Stroke diesel be enough truck?

SouthernX,

You probably haven't found the answer you was looking for in your thread, because it has turned into a "HOT-SHOT-TRUCKING thread.

You have one guy saying that in OHIO, you can haul all the weight you want on a pickup and its legal.

Then it went to hauling a boat, camper and tractor trailers.

Builder gave you the right information, some others did also.

It would be best to stay under your (GVWR) anything over 26000lbs.
and you would need a CDL.

You said if you had the trailer fully loaded at 20klbs. would your truck
handle it, i had the same truck and i never had that much on it.

I believe it would be too much, but if you do haul that much weight i
would make sure you had good trailer brakes.

Every time a thread starts some will argue about something else, and
not try to help someone.
_____________________________

 

[KML]

"Every time a thread starts some will argue about something else, and
not try to help someone."

Agreed, looks like this thread is well past the point of being usefull.

If anyone has a question about their specific state and situation you might get some answers here:



Field Office Phone List - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

"The field organizations deliver program services to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's (FMCSA) partners and customers. This organization consists of Field Operations, Service center and State-level motor carrier division offices.

These offices are here to answer your questions and to provide you with guidance concerning the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations."

Be safe out there!

 

[Builder]

"Every time a thread starts some will argue about something else, and
not try to help someone."

Agreed, looks like this thread is well past the point of being usefull.

If anyone has a question about their specific state and situation you might get some answers here:



Field Office Phone List - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

"The field organizations deliver program services to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's (FMCSA) partners and customers. This organization consists of Field Operations, Service center and State-level motor carrier division offices.

These offices are here to answer your questions and to provide you with guidance concerning the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations."

Be safe out there!

Exactly what I was trying to say with less words. Don't do dumb things with small trucks. Don't overload or overtow with them. Get the right truck & the right training & licensing. '

Do it for the safety of my children & yours.

 

[Harold_J]

In North Carolina to be legal you must have CDL's for any trailer over 10K in weight. That's the law....

If that is the way NC enforces things, and I have reason to doubt you, that's a very strict code that goes beyond the federal guidlines.

Even in NY which can be a pita at times, your trailer can be over 10,000# with no CDL, as long as the total package is not >26,000. And if you keep the trailer under 10,000 you can go as high as 36,000 on the combination so long as the truck doing the pulling is not >26,000 MGVW. I believe you will find that most states operate this way since it is the federal statute; a few like CA and NC may be different.

 

[GreenWannabe]

Different states have different rules for licensing, even for RVs. I had a 40 foot diesel RV wit air brakes, 35K pounds GVRW. In Florida, I only had to have an E class, normal drivers license. Most states had reciprocity with Florida, but some did not - like Illinois. I was always very nervous driving through Illinois, made no unnecessary stops, stuck to the Interstates, and put the cruise control on the speed limit - 55 for RVs.

Florida did have a class D license which would allow non-commercial drivers to drive rigs over 26000 GVW, IIRC - but only for personal purposes. It is possible that North Carolina has such a class as well. A check of the state's driver licensing web site should have the classes and requirements; otherwise, there should be a printed guide that does (besides the regular dirvers licenseing guide).

 

[Harold_J]

Different states have different rules for licensing, even for RVs. I had a 40 foot diesel RV wit air brakes, 35K pounds GVRW. In Florida, I only had to have an E class, normal drivers license. Most states had reciprocity with Florida, but some did not - like Illinois. I was always very nervous driving through Illinois, made no unnecessary stops, stuck to the Interstates, and put the cruise control on the speed limit - 55 for RVs.

Florida did have a class D license which would allow non-commercial drivers to drive rigs over 26000 GVW, IIRC - but only for personal purposes. It is possible that North Carolina has such a class as well. A check of the state's driver licensing web site should have the classes and requirements; otherwise, there should be a printed guide that does (besides the regular dirvers licenseing guide).

I took a look at the NC DMV website and it appears you do NOT need a CDL to operate trailers over 10K pounds. However they do have something called a CLASS A Regular License, which you would need to tow such a trailer. It's kind of confusing, but here is the link. I don't live in NC but might want to drive thru with a 16K trailer behind a pickup. GreenWannabe, how did you find about about the different states reciprocities?

NCDOT Division of Motor Vehicles: Driver Handbook: Chapter 1

Types of Regular Licenses:

If you are 18 years of age or older you may apply for an original North Carolina driver license. Under North Carolina's classified license system most drivers need only a Class C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.

Class A: Required to operate any combination of vehicles exempt from commercial driver license (CDL) requirements with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds. Also required for operating any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds, if the vehicle being towed has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds.
Class B: Required to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more that is exempt from CDL requirements, and any such vehicle while towing another vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.
Class C: Required to operate any vehicle with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds that is exempt from CDL requirements and is not towing a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds. Most drivers need only a Regular C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.

Types of Commercial Licenses (CDLs):

A CDL is required for drivers, paid or volunteer, who drive the following types of vehicles that are designed or used to transport passengers or property.

Class A: Required to operate a vehicle that has a combined gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of at least 26,001 lbs and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 lbs.
Class B: Required to operate:
A single motor vehicle that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 lbs.
A combination of motor vehicles that includes as part of the combination a towing unit that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 lbs and a towed unit that has a GVWR of less than 10,001 lbs.

Class C: A single or combination of motor vehicles not included in Class A or B but meets any of the following descriptions:
is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.
is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded.
You do not need a CDL to drive recreational vehicles, military equipment, fire and/ or emergency equipment or certain farm vehicles. However, a regular license of the appropriate class is always required.
A special CDL endorsement is required to haul hazardous materials, transport passengers, pull double trailers, drive tank vehicles or drive school buses or school activity buses. Additional information about the CDL is in the North Carolina Commercial Driver License Handbook.

 

[GreenWannabe]

GreenWannabe, how did you find about about the different states reciprocities?

Family Motor Coach magazine, published by Family Motor Coaching Association (FMCA, web site FMCA motorcoach, motorhome and rv owners) usually publishes an annual article detailing weight, length, towing, and DL requirements for all 50 states and the Canadian provinces in tabular form. It at least gives you a sense of what each state requires, so you don't have to find out for yourself from each state. I think Trailer Life and MotorHome magazines publish something similar, as major trucking magazines do sometimes as well.