Big first steps towards construction

[OkeeDon]

I decided to post this in Rural Living because that's going to be the ultimate result. A couple of major things have come together over the past few weeks to ensure this is going to happen.

*Commercial property sold; house financing set...
The biggest thing is that today, we signed a formal contract to sell a small commercial property we own. This has been in the works for a couple of weeks, but I didn't want to jinx it by saying something before we had a signed contract. This is not a huge deal; it's only a 1200 sq. ft. building on about 1/2 acre of land, but it's enough to completely pay for the construction of our new house, barn and pool. That makes it a big deal in our book.

In order to reduce capital gains taxes and provide future retirement income, we structured the sale with seller-held financing. We'll take a line-of-credit equity loan on our existing house to pay for the new house, pay off the equity loan when we sell the older house, and continue to have loan income at a comfortable rate of interest for the next 20 years. For the next year during consturction, the interest on the seller-financed note will pay the interest on the equity loan. This structure will make a considerable difference in our retirement.

*House plans to architect...
The other significant progress was that with the impending sale of the commercial property, I was motivated to get my house design to someone qualified to turn the design into a working plan. For the past 2-1/2 years, I have been drawing designs in TurboCad, a computer-aided drawing program similar to AutoCad, but a whole bunch more affordable. As my wife and I dreamed and discussed, I tried putting the ideas down on paper. I'm now on design #6, having progressed through each previous iteration while moving closer to what we really want. It sure is easier (and cheaper) to discard a computer drawing than it is to build the wrong thing...

I finally got the design to the point where I said, "Enough. This is it, and I can't take it any further without help." The problem then became, where to turn? I've never built a house before. My choices seemed to be architect, engineer, house designer, contractor/designer. I'm going to serve as my own contractor, so it would be difficult to persuade a contractor to come up with plans for something he isn't going to build. An engineer, it seemed to me, was really only suitable to stamp drawings after they were complete. A house designer (a professional with training and skills but who is not a professional architect) seemed like a good choice.

I was intimidated with the idea of an architect. From my limited experience, it seemed like they only wanted projects a whole lot bigger and richer than mine. The anecdotes I had heard where that they were arrogant, expensive, and too controlling. However, I found a local architect who was advertising under both "architects" and "home designers". That removed a little of my trepidation, and I phoned him. One of his first questions was, "Do you plan to serve as your own contractor?" When I replied, "Yes", he responded "Fine", and I knew we were well on the way to a match.

I emailed him my plans in AutoCad format about 4 weeks ago, and gave him the URL of the site planning photos on my web site (Okeechobee Project). He looked, liked what he saw, and we met last week. I'm more enthused with him than I expected, and he appears to be enthused with the project. He's working up a proposal for me, now, but I have already accepted his ball-park price. I don't know how long it's going to take for him to work his magic, but I would expect something in the range of 3 months or so, and won't be upset with 6 months (he has a healthy backlog). That means that we could be pulling permits as early as September and no later than the end of the year. The sooner the better, but I've already put 2-/12 years into this project and I'm not going to start to rush it, now.

So, that's all my big news. I'm excited. As things start to solidify, I'll start a thread on construction in "projects", but until then, attached is a simple outline of the projected house.

 

[johnday]

Don; Good for you!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I had an archetect/injunear take a design for me that required a lot of steel. Since I'm not an ironworker or even a weldor at that time, I had him design and stamp plans for wood instead of the steel. Did a stellar job and saved me a bunch of bucks.

Good luck, and sounds like you fell into the right pile. Feels good, doesn't it. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[_RaT_]

Don, from what I see of your attachment, I like it. Simple, large veranda or covered porch for those of you not fluent in the spanish lingo. Looks great, we are getting our similar plans which has a garage below and a studio upstairs above the garage. It is a temporary housing quarters for us while we move our old worn out mobile home off the building site. After that it is a studio or guest house. We can't wait, this mobile home stuff is not us.

 

[AndyM]

Congratulations Don, it's been a long time coming. It will be fun for not only you, but for many of us as well to watch things progress.

 

[stevenf]

Great news Don We've recently found ourselves in the same position but we jumped way ahead of ourselves and had our income come from our city house we sold that we were living in, now we are living in a 200 year old caretakers cabin while building our house, the cabin over the years had indoor plumbing installed so at least we aren't reduced to an outhouse but its very very rustic we'll say beyond what most men could talk their wife of 25 years into, lets see you want me to move out of a 2,000 sq ft house in subburbia to live in a tin shack in the middle of a 350 acre ranch.
We finally after many false starts by contractors told them all to leave and are doing it ourselves as of last weekend. We got farther in 2 days then 4 different contractors got since August.
We drilled 27 pier posts and got the corner posts in the ground and should finish the rest this weekend and you know when we get finished it may not be the fanciest house in the hill country but we'll have done it completely by ourselves and I'm sure that I'll be much happier knowing that everthing was done exactly like I wanted it because I did it or at least I'll know who to blame. By the way lose the pool and dormers and your building our house. Its taken some long hard sleepless nights to come to this conclusion but with the money we save we'll be able to retire earlier and enjoy the ranch while were still young as we got a nice chunk for the one in town and it was paid for. We didn't lose the pool completely I put a lake in below the house site last year although you have to take the snake gun this time of year if your swimming to ward off the moccasins.
Good Luck with your house I'll be watching as I also drew and designed our house plans but have elected to fly by the seat of my pants a bit and just nail it together and not worry with an architect. My dad built houses for a living but retired when I was 18 so I got to see it done but didn't get that much experience actually doing it although my dads still kicking he's fighting the cancer thing so about all he can do is watch but even thats a help since he did it by himself for many years he has a lot of great information to pass on. I have told him just come out and sit in a lawn chair in the shade and scream no Jackass not that way when he sees me getting ready to do something wrong.
Steve

 

[hazmat]

My first thought was, How is that roof going to shed snow? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Then I remembered where you live... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Nice looking plans - congratulations on moving forward...

 

[OkeeDon]

Thanks for all the good wishes. I'm going to have a lot of fun describing it as it gets designed and constructed. After 2-1/2 years of thought, research and planning, there are a lot of things that are just a little different than most houses, but they suit us. For example, just as a teaser, our kitchen is not going to have any cabinets. Thanks to lots of Friday evenings in Barnes & Noble, and Google, we've made a LOT of neat decisions.

The drawing I posted, by the way, has no doors or windows, and the roof lines don't exactly come together right, but that's OK -- that's the architect's job once I gave him the general shell and room layout to work with.

The main floor is about 2100 sq. ft, with the left half of the house being an open great room with high cathedral ceiling. The right half of the house is 2 large bedrooms and baths downstairs. Above that half is a 1000 sq ft loft with 2 smaller bedrooms, another bath, and a library on the L-shaped balcony around the right side and back of the great room. Attached is the first floor sketch.

 

[hitekcountry]

OkeeDon

Congratulations, Looks like you’ve got your ducks lined up very well. You have a dream, the ability to make it happen, and now you’re moving ahead. It’s an inspiration to the rest of us who have the same or similar dreams.

Side note
In an old thread about Hardy Plank, you suggested using the electric shears for cutting instead of using a saw. When I built my garage years ago I used Hardy Plank and cut it with a saw. Man the dust cloud you create with a saw is bad, and especially for someone like me with asthma it’s is really bad! About 2 months ago I did an entire building with Hardy plank, and from your suggestion I used the porter cable shears. What a difference, no dust cloud, and no having to wear a dust mask. For me a life saver. THANKS!!!

Fred

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm looking forward to following your posts on the construction. Nothing more exiting then a new project!!!

Eddie

 

[PSDStu]

Thats a great project Don and I look forward to seeing pictures as things move along.

I was wondering what it cost to have your pasture fence installed around your property?

Stu

 

[jinman]

So Don, where does the high-dollar one-of-a-kind barbecue grill go? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Nice design! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm looking forward to seeing it under construction.

 

[OkeeDon]

A couple of answers to the fence question. My daughter and son-in-law live next door on 2-1/2 acres. The combined 7-1/2 acres is long and narrow -- 280' x 780' (mine); and 280' x 390' (theirs), for a combined 280' x 1170'. One long side and one short side are bordered by roads; the other sides by neighbors. One short side was not fenced; the long border to the neighbors was previously fenced.

Our first fencing was to install field fencing along the 3 sides (2 short, 1 long) where no fencing existed, or where the fencing on my daughter's property was in poor condtion. We hired a local contractor to clear the brush from the fence line, remove what old fence was in place, and install field fencing with wood posts. this was 1,730' of new fence plus the other labor. We paid a total of $2,800, which was ~$1/foot for the fence plus the clearing.

We watched him do it, and took note of the materials he used. The long side of my property bordering with my neighbor was fenced with 4 strand barbed wire. Our dogs could get through it without slowing down (tough, high-pain-threshhold dogs). We (my s-i-l and myself) installed the 780' of field fence down that property line ourselves. All of the material came from Tractor Supply. The field fence at that time was $78 for a 330' roll;it's $114 now. We bought 3 rolls. We spaced the 3" round wood posts about 12' apart, or about 60+ posts for $4+ and several 6" posts for $14+. Add staples, wire to tighten the corner structures and some simple fence tools (cutter, pliers), and our cost was about $.90 per foot, so we got a really, really good installed price. I think most fence companies around here charge about $3/foot; we caught this fellow with a crew between jobs that needed to be kept busy. We fabricated a gadget to clamp onto the end of the fence, attached it to the tractor and stretched the fence tight before stapling. Two of us were able to do the entire job. We used a rented, gas post hole digger, as I haven't bought one for my tractor, yet.

My s-i-l is having problems with his neighbor (long story) so he installed 390' of 6' high, wood stockade fence along his back fence line.

We used some of the leftover fencing to make a temporary boundary between our properties while my house is being constructed. His dogs are a little more protective and I'll keep them away from the laborers until the work is done, then we'll remove that fence.

Here's a picture of the corner structure we used.

 

[OkeeDon]

There will be a separate grilling deck off the back of the back porch, with direct access to the utility kitchen. The utility kitchen is one of the unique things I'm planning. Our main kitchen will be part of the great room. As I mentioned, it will have no cabinets. Instead, it will use furniture, much like a 40's framhouse kitchen or many British country kitchens. We have things like a drysink, oak china closet, breakfront, hutch, antique dough tray, etc. already. We have a 40's porcelain kitchen table and are looking for a nice hoosier cabinet to match. We're also looking for a nice pie safe or jelly cupboard, and we plan to have at least one wall lined with heavy, open shelves for crockery, my growing collection of wire top bottles, etc. The stove and fridge will be period; if I can afford them, I'll use the replicase such as from Elmira Stoveworks. The sink will be a farm sink with a drainboard and the gingham curtain underneath. I have a nice vent-a-hood to use, but it will be hidden behind some period woodwork. The microwave will be hidden. We plan to have a huge kitchen table, like an island, but on casters so we can move it around. That will be our primary work surface. I'd also like to find a nice butcher block and mount on casters.

There will be no place in that main kitchen for a diswasher, or for the typical storage of cookie sheets, spare pans, tupperware containers, old punch bowls and all the other stuff that gets collected in typical kitchen cabinets. Plus, the main fridge will be a little small. So, I decided that we need a utility kitchen. I sort of invented the idea from a combination of pantry, butler's pantry, and mud room. Ours will be 8' x 16' and separated from the great room by swinging cafe doors. It will be galley style. Along one side will be a very large cleanup and prep sink, a dishwasher with cutting board counter, a commercial fridge/freezer, and a section of conventional cabinets for the tupperware storage (and old margarine cups; I won' believe you if you say you don't save that kind of stuff). On the other side will be a pantry, a floor-to-ceiling shelf section for all the weird little appliances we collect and can never get at like tater twisters, deep fryers, electric skillets, blenders, juicers, pasta makers, etc., and finally the washer/dryer at the far end.

Food prep like chopping and stuffing will take place in here; after dinner, leftovers and dirty dishes will be shoved behind the swinging doors until later. Our primary food storage will be here. Basically, it will be like the restaurant kitchen you never see, with the exception that there is no stove in there. All the actuall cooking will be out in the open.

At the other end, a door outside will lead to the grilling deck. The same foor storage, food prep and cleanup will work for the outdoor kitchen, too. The outdoor kitchen will have a grill island, a bar island, and space for my smokers and charcoal grills. The bar island will have a bar sink and ice storage, with a stainless steel pull-out drawer holding a cooler for beer and soda.

Many of the appliances are already on hand, some stored in the shipping container I put on the property. We've been house "poor" for our entire lives, saving and planning and acquiring things for this life-long dream.

 

[bmac]

Don,

You are one of the most innovative individuals I know. To say your kitchen set up is "out-of-the-box" (boy I hate that phrase) would be an understatement. Awesome ideas. Your vision is so well described I can easily form a mental picture of what your home will look like. However, I still want to know when the open house will be so I can see it in person. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

The funny part (my wife thinks it's the sad part) is that our kitchen ideas were innovative a couple of years ago; now we're starting to see them crop up all over. Most kitchens still have cabinets, of course, but even the cabinet manufacturers are starting to go for the "furniture" look because of people like us. We may be carrying it a bit further than most, but not if one looks at the design magazines (those Friday nights at Barnes & Noble come in handy).

Just this morning I saw a commercial on TV for some food product that featured a kitchen with no wall cabinets -- just shelves lined with crockery, etc. Makes my wife sad because when we finally do it, we'll have no way to prove we thought of it all ourselves...

Attached is a picture of a simple country kitchen, the sort that we used for inspiration.

 

[bmac]

Well, maybe I am out of the loop with design trends. However, as we have been in the design stage for our home for about a year or so, I have looked at countless kitchen and bath magazines. I am aware of the "furniture look" of today's cabinets. But I can honestly say I have never seen the food prep / cleaning area separate from the cooking area as you have described. And while I have seen a number of the furniture elements you described in the kitchen, I don't recall seeing a kitchen that incorporated as many as yours at the expense of traditional cabinetry.

All I know is that I am intrigued with your plan and, cutting edge or not, I look forward to seeing the completed project.

 

[OkeeDon]

Oh, yeah, the separate utility kitchen. I like to take credit for a cutting edge, unique application. I like to, but the truth is, it was a simple chain of reasoning. Betsy says, "I don't really like cabinets. Can we use a hoosier cabinet, the dry sink, and some other furniture instead? I say, "Yeah, I really like that idea, but where will we put the dishwasher?" I happened to be looking at several plans with mud rooms and/or laundry rooms off the kitchen, and I thought, "You know, there may be room in there for the dishwasher." The idea of a cleanup sink came quickly after that when I was trying to wash a 14" skillet in our double basin sink -- doesn't fit. Once I had a counter with a dishwasher under and a sink next to it, the idea of using the counter for food prep was a no-brainer. I like to do Chinese cooking, which requires a LOT of chopping and prep ahead of time. I'll spend hours prepping all the little bowls of ingredients ahead, just like the TV chefs. I do the same for a lot of other styles of cooking.

With food prep, the idea of having a storage fridge/freezer next to it came naturally. Actually, I'm just reversing what we have done for years. We now have our "main" fridge in the kitchen and an older, "beer and soda" fridge out in the garage. That didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Our new house will have the "beer, soda, snack and breakfast" fridge in the main kitchen, with all the "heavy duty" cold storage in the utility kitchen. This actually lets me use one of the original '40s fridges in the "country" kitchen, complete with the old U-shaped evaporator/freezer, if I can find one in really good shape. I see them all the time on EBay, just haven't worked out the shipping, yet.

What it really ended up was that the so-called "main" kitchen is really a show kitchen, maintaining the farmhouse theme without modern appliances jarring the appearance, and letting me "show off" my cooking skills. All the hard, dirty work and clean up will be hidden. Oh, by the way, I like to cook, something I didn't discover until I was in my 50's.

So, I'm no cutting edge innovator, I just solved a few problems. I do get a little giggle out of the fact that many folks are confused by my ideas, but that's probably only because they aren't as **** as I am when it comes to finding the problems in the first place.

Just wait until I start describing the master bath shower...there won't be any cabinets or linen closets in the bathrooms, either, they'll all be furniture as well. I'll save the powder room for last -- it will look a lot like an outhouse --

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> I'll save the powder room for last -- it will look a lot like an outhouse -- </font>

Have you found a supply of old Sears and Roebucks catalogs for you powder room paper supply? That is, if you really want to keep the outhouse theme.

Don, I like your ideas, your writing style and friendliness. I wish we were neighbors.

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> I like your ideas, your writing style and friendliness. I wish we were neighbors. </font>
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Back atcha.

As for the Sears Catalogues, I haven't found a supply of really old ones, which leads to a dilemma. Ever since I was a kid 'lo those many years ago, the Sears catalog has been printed on slick paper. 'Way back in the day, they were on a type of newsprint paper. Now, slick paper just doesn't work as well for the -- uh -- purpose.

So, I'm wondering how far to take authenticity. The low cost and easy availability was what led to the use of the catalogs in the first place; it would seem to be violating that spirit to bid extraordinary amounts on EBay for the early catalogs and then have them shipped in, considering their ultimate fate. I'm leaning towards the spirit of the Sears catalog rather than the fact; and considering the daily newspaper as being a worthy successor. I can cut it up into somewhat narrow strips and hang the strips off a coat hanger as necessary. It's also a convenience for the guests; the strips will be pre-cut, rather than requiring them to tear out a page or two. What do you think? Or, am I carrying authenticity too far?

 

[mdbarb]

I'm sure the architect will tweak it a bit - but first thing I see is to flip bath to the outside wall for light
put the closet in the middle instead and flip the plumbing so both bathrooms share a common plumbing wall.
Sorry I can't help myself.
keep us posted on the architect's plans