Blackberries and Grapes

2manyrocks · Mar 13, 2009

Nice looking garden in the back of that picture, too.

GaryS · Mar 13, 2009

3 years ago I started a small orchard. I planted a bunch of apple, pear, and table grapes. Here's the layout I used:

Everything has grown well and this year I'm planting cheery, plum, and nectarine trees and a bunch of different wine grapes.

When we built the house in 2005, I told the wife I wanted to do something different with all the landscaping around the house. Everything we planted had to be edible or beneficial in some way. We now have blueberries, strawberries, and raspberries. We plant pumpkins, cucumbers, and a bunch of other stuff around the house. All the shade trees (so far anyway) have been sugar maples.

This year I may break the tradition and plant some roses.

dooleysm · Mar 14, 2009

Just for the sake of discussion while I'm waiting for the sun to come up so I can get started, how long would you all think landscape timbers would last for my application? I would expect that if I built my arbors or trellises or whatever they're called (does anyone have a more appropriate word than arbor, cause I can't think of one) out of untreated pine 2x4's that it would last at least 10 years before it rotted to the point of falling apart. I am guessing that my landscape timber model will last 20-30 years before it gets to the point that it has to be replaced. If I built it out of pressure treated 4x4's and 2x4's I would expect it to last 40+ years. My grandpa's got a grape arbor at his house that has been around as long as I can remember (I'm 31) and show's no signs of failing any time soon. I assume he built it out of pressure treated lumber.

So anyway, I believe that my landscape timber model will last as long as I want it to; meaning that I'll want them moved, modified, or removed before it fails due to rot.

And whatever the group consensus is, we should have a good baseline test started after today! Check back in 20 years for results!

Bird · Mar 14, 2009

Shawn, maybe you know more about that lumber than I do, but I would think you are greatly over estimating the length of time the wood will last. I'd divide those estimates by 4.

hunterridgefarm · Mar 14, 2009

dooleysm said:
Just for the sake of discussion while I'm waiting for the sun to come up so I can get started, how long would you all think landscape timbers would last for my application? I would expect that if I built my arbors or trellises or whatever they're called (does anyone have a more appropriate word than arbor, cause I can't think of one) out of untreated pine 2x4's that it would last at least 10 years before it rotted to the point of falling apart. I am guessing that my landscape timber model will last 20-30 years before it gets to the point that it has to be replaced. If I built it out of pressure treated 4x4's and 2x4's I would expect it to last 40+ years. My grandpa's got a grape arbor at his house that has been around as long as I can remember (I'm 31) and show's no signs of failing any time soon. I assume he built it out of pressure treated lumber.

So anyway, I believe that my landscape timber model will last as long as I want it to; meaning that I'll want them moved, modified, or removed before it fails due to rot.

And whatever the group consensus is, we should have a good baseline test started after today! Check back in 20 years for results!

dooleysm,
I consider an arbor as something you can walk under which we have for some of our grapes and a trellis as a "wall" for support or climbing for vines.
So I think you are calling it the right thing.

Landscape timbers: I used them one time to build a dog lot. They lasted anywhere from 5 years to 15 years in the ground, some just lasted longer than the others. They only supported wire, with the grapes you will have added pressure from the vines and once you "cut back" or trim the vines you will be pulling them off the trellis or arbor, if you have a post that is rotting this pressure could break the post off.

Above ground they should last anywhere from 8 years to 15-20 years, just depends alot on climate factors in your area.

A treated 2x4 is not much different in price compared to the timber, but I would use treated 4x4 in the ground.

On some of our arbors we have galvanized pipe across the top wired together where they intersect. You can usually pick it up cheap at a salvage place. Just a thought

tallyho8 · Mar 14, 2009

I've used landscape timbers for fence posts and other uses. Around here they usually rot out in about 5 years. I've had 4x4 posts in for 20 years that are still good. The 4x4s have much more treatment than the landscape timbers.

Pilot · Mar 14, 2009

Come on over to western Oregon, you can have all the blackberries you want. You would have to look a long time to find someone who wouldn't be happy to let you take them all. They are kind of like the kudzu of the northwest.

It's hard to get rid of then damned things, so nothing you do to them will kill them except hitting them with Roundup in the fall.

When we built our previous house there was a small blackberry patch, maybe 10 ft. across in the front corner of our yard. The builder took them out with his backhoe, but he missed a few little pieces of cane, maybe 6 inches long. They got buried. I pulled out blackberries from that spot for 3 years, all growing from little canes. I don't dare eat any of the berries for fear we'll find them growing in the drainfield.

Bird · Mar 14, 2009

Come on over to western Oregon, you can have all the blackberries you want. You would have to look a long time to find someone who wouldn't be happy to let you take them all. They are kind of like the kudzu of the northwest.

In August, 1991, we had spent a week in Canon Beach, OR, then traveled a bit east and on August 18, 1991, we picked blackberries along the road near Brownsville, OR. As you say, there were plenty of them, and big pretty berries, too. Since we were living in a fifth-wheel, we didn't have room for too much, but we froze 2 ziploc bags of berries for cobblers, then made 4 pints of blackberry jelly, and I had 3/4 cup of juice left over that made pancake syrup.

JohnDeere4300 · Mar 14, 2009

When I'm planning to put in a 4x4 or 6x6 pressure treated post in the ground, i will let it dry some and put a coat of tar on it.

Letting it dry out some will let the tar stick to the post better, and when i put the post in the ground with cement, i will let the cement come above the ground and slope it back towards the ground, so water won't stand around the post.

dooleysm · Mar 14, 2009

Well, the posts are in the ground, so only time will tell.

I've got loads of wild blackberry bushes, but they don't produce real well. The blackberries are tiny and there's not very many on each bush. We have to pick for an hour to get enough for a pie. The wild ones taste alot better, sweeter and smaller seeds, but they just aren't worth the effort.

Willl · Mar 14, 2009

Just a blackberry thought.

After experiencing my mothers 'thorn-less blackberrys' in her garden, I see no reason for any other kind.

DocHeb · Mar 14, 2009

dooleysm said:
...I am guessing that my landscape timber model will last 20-30 years before it gets to the point that it has to be replaced. If I built it out of pressure treated 4x4's and 2x4's I would expect it to last 40+ years...

Most of the treated lumber you find at the big box stores isn't even rated for ground contact. I also feel that the ACQ lumber does not last as long as CCA treated lumber. The ACQ lumber also eats non- hot-galvanized or non-stainless fasteners so I don't think you'll get 40 years.

survriggs · Mar 16, 2009

hunterridgefarm said:
We are also looking at planting several rows of blackberries. What variety did you plant? Do they have a good flavor...sweet or tart?

Your 20 gallons was harvested off of how long a row...10'...20'...?

Thanks!

David

I believe they are Quachita. They are very sweet. I have two rows 30 ft. long

buckeyefarmer · Mar 17, 2009

survriggs said:
I believe they are Quachita. They are very sweet. I have two rows 30 ft. long

HenryFields has Quachita, 3 plants for $15.

Bird · Mar 17, 2009

You do mean Ouachita instead of Quachita, don't you?

JohnDeere4300 · Mar 17, 2009

Blackberry Plants - Henry Field's Seed & Nursery

That's where we got ours.

And we got everything else at__"Gurney's"

kenmac · Mar 18, 2009

dooleysm said:
I'm planning to put up some blackberry and grape 'arbors' (I think that's the word I want) this spring. I'm planning to get some 8' landscape timbers for this project. I'm hoping to use one at each corner for a post to make an 8x5.5 (I want it just wide enough to run my lawn tractor through to mow) rectangle. Then I'm going to rip some timbers in half lengthwise to make a frame around the top. Finally I'm going to tack some woven wire fencing with maybe 4x4 squares along the 8' sides and over the top.

I'm planning 2 of these structures, 1 for grapes and 1 for blackberries. Anyone see any reason(s) why this wouldn't work?

My main question is about planting the fruit. I believe I can go over to my FIL's and take some cuttings from his blackberry bushes, plant those, and they will grow into bushes at my place. I think I've heard that this works with blackberries. Can anyone confirm or deny?

What about grapes? My FIL has them too, can I take cuttings from them in the same manner as with blackberries?

Any other considerations?

No grapes ..But, I bought 3 BB bushes a couple months ago & set them in the natural soil. The place I got them from said they will do just fine in the natural soil... The best part.......They are thornless. The nice spring weather we are having has made the leaves green up

buckeyefarmer · Mar 18, 2009

Bird said:
You do mean Ouachita instead of Quachita, don't you?

i think you're right.

forgeblast · Mar 19, 2009

I just wanted to share some blue berry tips that a commerical gower gave me.
1. no more then six cains out from the center plant, if there are more the blueberry quality and quanity suffer.
2. he uses as fertilizer double ground hardwood mulch. he puts in on in the spring and thats it. it keeps the weeds down and breaks down into a great source of food for the blueberrys.
enjoy.

JohnDeere4300 · Mar 19, 2009

forgeblast said:
I just wanted to share some blue berry tips that a commerical gower gave me.
1. no more then six cains out from the center plant, if there are more the blueberry quality and quanity suffer.
2. he uses as fertilizer double ground hardwood mulch. he puts in on in the spring and thats it. it keeps the weeds down and breaks down into a great source of food for the blueberrys.
enjoy.

Another good tip that we do is put coffee grounds around them.