block heater

[brokenot]

I can't count the number of tractor trailers that I had to do road service on because they were froze up and they were driving down the highway when it happened. Was running fine when they left the truck stop at Keysers Ridge, Md., but it froze up while moving.......you have yet to explain it.

But let me assure you, only 'wind chill' is going to cause that.

We have probably ALL changed out fuel filters on equipment or trucks under the conditions you just described, but here's the rub:

If you got called out on the highway because a truck was stalled and you arrived to find it jelled up and then you swapped out the filters, how far down the road is that truck going to get before it jells up again?

You haven't magically raised the ambient temperature, nor have you lessened any wind effect due to road speed by swapping out a filter.

In other words, in any situation where you have ever "fixed" a truck out on the road by swapping out some filters, what has your filter swapping accomplished as far as doing anything to deal with the actual ambient temperature and the "wind effect" of the vehicle reaching road speed?

If it really was "wind chill", your newly installed filters would also jell up soon after hitting the road again. Not only that, but each and every other truck on the road would be pulled over experiencing the same issues. They'd be fine idling or at low road speeds, and then they'd all quit once they got up to road speed....if it were the "wind chill" that was causing it.

The trucks you described jelled up once out on the road because the engines take more fuel running down the highway than they do sitting at the truck stop.

It's really pretty simple experiment to find out at what temperature diesel fuel jells. You can put some fuel in a small container and expose it to lower and lower temps until you observe the phenomenon taking place. Then you can expose that same fuel sample to "wind" by setting it on the hood of your vehicle and driving down the road. It will not jell at a higher temperature than it did before, and the "wind" will not make the actual temperature lower than it actually is. It's an even simpler experiment to attach, (or to look at a factory-installed), thermometer in your vehicle. If you glance at it as you're backing out of your driveway and it says the temperature outside is "X", then does that reading change once you hit 60 mph? It doesn't. On modern vehicles with computers and ECMs, why don't the manufacturers tie the vehicle speed sensor output in with the thermometer output and display the "wind chill" reading on the handy dashboard display? Why don't the trucks you're describing have a warning lamp that says to decrease the road speed because it's approaching the dreaded "wind chill" plateau that's going to make the fuel jell? It would be easy to do so, but they don't because it's irrelevant information.

"Imaginary temperatures" arrived at by using "wind chill" charts and factors don't freeze water, they don't jell fuel, etc.

Actual temperatures do result in those things occurring.

 

[Don87]

We have probably ALL changed out fuel filters on equipment or trucks under the conditions you just described, but here's the rub:

If you got called out on the highway because a truck was stalled and you arrived to find it jelled up and then you swapped out the filters, how far down the road is that truck going to get before it jells up again?

You haven't magically raised the ambient temperature, nor have you lessened any wind effect due to road speed by swapping out a filter.

In other words, in any situation where you have ever "fixed" a truck out on the road by swapping out some filters, what has your filter swapping accomplished as far as doing anything to deal with the actual ambient temperature and the "wind effect" of the vehicle reaching road speed?If it really was "wind chill", your newly installed filters would also jell up soon after hitting the road again. Not only that, but each and every other truck on the road would be pulled over experiencing the same issues. They'd be fine idling or at low road speeds, and then they'd all quit once they got up to road speed....if it were the "wind chill" that was causing it.

The trucks you described jelled up once out on the road because the engines take more fuel running down the highway than they do sitting at the truck stop.

It's really pretty simple experiment to find out at what temperature diesel fuel jells. You can put some fuel in a small container and expose it to lower and lower temps until you observe the phenomenon taking place. Then you can expose that same fuel sample to "wind" by setting it on the hood of your vehicle and driving down the road. It will not jell at a higher temperature than it did before, and the "wind" will not make the actual temperature lower than it actually is. It's an even simpler experiment to attach, (or to look at a factory-installed), thermometer in your vehicle. If you glance at it as you're backing out of your driveway and it says the temperature outside is "X", then does that reading change once you hit 60 mph? It doesn't. On modern vehicles with computers and ECMs, why don't the manufacturers tie the vehicle speed sensor output in with the thermometer output and display the "wind chill" reading on the handy dashboard display? Why don't the trucks you're describing have a warning lamp that says to decrease the road speed because it's approaching the dreaded "wind chill" plateau that's going to make the fuel jell? It would be easy to do so, but they don't because it's irrelevant information.

"Imaginary temperatures" arrived at by using "wind chill" charts and factors don't freeze water, they don't jell fuel, etc.

Actual temperatures do result in those things occurring.

Either you didn't understand what I posted, or I posted in such a way that it couldn't be understood.

And all trucks aren't the same, some have fuel filters on the frame rail that are exposed to the wind.

It's clear that some on here are never going to understand wind chill, unless this explanation gets your attention:


Ever listen to a weather report about icing conditions? They always tell you that bridges and overpasses will freeze first.......the phenomenon causing this is the wind. Bridges and overpasses cause wind tunnels to form. The air will move faster, causing a lower wind chill that can freeze the road surfaces.

Take 2 bridges, crossing a small stream, at certain temperatures, with wind......the bridge going over the ice covered stream will be icy, but if the water is not frozen, the bridge won't be icy.
Wind chill in these examples I have given, are in fact affecting inanimate objects.

Ya don't hafta take my word for it, just pay closer attention when you drive down the highway.:thumbsup:

 

[shaley]

Can you repeat the question?
Is the question: Will the wind make my tractor harder to start when using a block heater?
Isn't this just a heat transfer problem? There are only 3 ways to xfer heat. Convection, conduction and radiation. I'd say convection is the dominate term when a tractor sits outside with a block heater.
Wind chill is just a term used for the perception of cold on the human body.
The term "increased heat loss" is used for inanimate objects. Air blowing against any surface will increase the heat loss from that surface. What that means for your specific tractor is a specific list of variables.

 

[jake98]

You guys are arguing about two different things, cooling and wind chill. A tractor going down the road in the wind has more cooling, and when it's near the gelling temperature it needs all the heat it can get. one parked over night might be a couple degrees warmer because it didn't get cooled completely, if it's parked out of the wind.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Can you repeat the question?
Is the question: Will the wind make my tractor harder to start when using a block heater?
Isn't this just a heat transfer problem? There are only 3 ways to xfer heat. Convection, conduction and radiation. I'd say convection is the dominate term when a tractor sits outside with a block heater.
Wind chill is just a term used for the perception of cold on the human body.
The term "increased heat loss" is used for inanimate objects. Air blowing against any surface will increase the heat loss from that surface. What that means for your specific tractor is a specific list of variables.

Exactly. That's why we cover the fronts of our trucks up here. It reduces the amount of wind under the hood and therefore minimizes heat loss.

 

[jake98]

'wind-chill' was invented by the weathermen to get you to stay inside and watch more TV.

 

[Don87]

'wind-chill' was invented by the weathermen to get you to stay inside and watch more TV.

LMAO:laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[Don87]

You guys are arguing about two different things, cooling and wind chill. A tractor going down the road in the wind has more cooling, and when it's near the gelling temperature it needs all the heat it can get. one parked over night might be a couple degrees warmer because it didn't get cooled completely, if it's parked out of the wind.

It was stated in an earlier post that inanimate objects are not affected by wind chills.


They are. Simple as that.

EDIT: Back to the bridge analogy.........I have experienced frozen bridges when the ambient temperature is 40 degrees.

 

[brokenot]

Ever listen to a weather report about icing conditions? They always tell you that bridges and overpasses will freeze first.......the phenomenon causing this is the wind. Bridges and overpasses cause wind tunnels to form. The air will move faster, causing a lower wind chill that can freeze the road surfaces.

Are you even being serious now?

Bridges and overpasses freeze moisture on their surfaces faster because the road surface is essentially detached from the ground. Ambient temperatures can then affect the elevated road surface to a greater degree than the rest of the road because the elevated road surface is exposed top and bottom to the ambient temperature. You should follow your own advice and pay attention to the road conditions and you'll see that elevated road surfaces will freeze moisture on their surfaces faster even in the absence of any wind.

But still......

-any moisture that is on the road and therefore "available" to be frozen, will NOT freeze until it reaches the temperature it freezes AT. And "wind chill" is not an actual temperature. It never has been, and never will be. If it were, then on a 40F day, (for example), with the wind blowing at 20 mph, the moisture on the road would be freezing, because the "wind chill" temperature is 20F.

And all trucks aren't the same, some have fuel filters on the frame rail that are exposed to the wind

So....I'll ask you again. Let's say you got called out on the road to fix one of the jelled trucks with the exposed fuel filters on the frame rails. How did you "fix" them? Did you re-locate all of the components to get them out of the wind? Did you do anything to change the ambient conditions?

If you screwed on some new filters, you did nothing to affect the wind, or the ambient temperature. If you added some "911" to the fuel tank, then you changed the ambient temperature the fuel jells at. If that was your fix, then my next suggestion for experimentation would be to mix up some of the additive you used. Once you've got your test sample of fuel blended at a ratio that's equivalent to what it would be in a truck tank, then expose it to lower and lower temps until it jells up. Record that temperature, and repeat the experiment again with the sample set on your vehicle hood while going down the road. See if it jells at a different temp.

It won't, because just like in the moisture freezing example, the jelling takes place at an actual temperature.

And 'wind chill" ain't an actual temperature.

EDIT: just saw this:

EDIT: Back to the bridge analogy.........I have experienced frozen bridges when the ambient temperature is 40 degrees.

Then the freezing you're seeing on the bridge occurred before the ambient temperature reached 40 degrees, and has not yet dissipated.

What temperature does water freeze at? There's a spec for it that doesn't include an asterisk or footnotes changing the spec depending on whether or not there's a breeze.

 

[Don87]

Wow........what can I say, you apparently don't understand

So much wrong information in your last post........it isn't even funny.