Bonded or Floating Neutral for generator?

[ponytug]

@stumblinhorse I can't see companies offering a switch, as they would likely be on the hook for users a) not having in the right setting, and b) accidentally switching it.

Shipping with it bonded puts the state of the bonding firmly in the buyers court.

@CobyRupert I look forward to the next episode!

All the best, Peter

 

[stumblinhorse]

@stumblinhorse I can't see companies offering a switch, as they would likely be on the hook for users a) not having in the right setting, and b) accidentally switching it.

Shipping with it bonded puts the state of the bonding firmly in the buyers court.

@CobyRupert I look forward to the next episode!

All the best, Peter

My stuff came with these…. Hopefully a switch is in the future…

 

[reb]

This thread left me more confused than I was. My generator is an inverter generator (7800 watts) with the neutral bonded to the frame. I plan to use a Generlink to connect it to the house when the power goes out. I think this thread and the other links I have read say I should disconnect the bonding between the neutral and chassis of the generator. Not sure. FWIW the owner's manual says to connect the ground lug with a #6 wire (or larger) to the ground lug to the for the house. The wire would then be about 30 feet.

 

[stumblinhorse]

This thread left me more confused than I was. My generator is an inverter generator (7800 watts) with the neutral bonded to the frame. I plan to use a Generlink to connect it to the house when the power goes out. I think this thread and the other links I have read say I should disconnect the bonding between the neutral and chassis of the generator. Not sure. FWIW the owner's manual says to connect the ground lug with a #6 wire (or larger) to the ground lug to the for the house. The wire would then be about 30 feet.

From what I learned from this thread you should have floating neutral in your inverter if you are connecting to a house panel that has the neutral bonded And you are not using a transfer switch that transfers neutral. This is usually the case. But is not 100%. Need to look at your wiring to be 100% sure.

Grounding to a rod is not really needed at your house.

 

[reb]

I installed my own sub panel for my generator. When it was inspected the inspector was concerned that the neutral was floating in the sub panel. He asked me about it and I showed him how the sub panel neutral as well as the generator input neutral and ground went directly to the main panel. So the neutral was only tied to ground in the main panel. So you are correct. The inspector was very keen to see that there was only 1 path to ground. The inspector told me that is was quite common to see folks who did their own electrical work to not have floating neutrals and to have extra grounding points. He asked me about the floating neutral just to make sure I knew what I was doing.
Eric

It appears you are right. Providing a ground wire would provide an extra path for return current in case of a fault. I guess that unbonding the neutral is related to the concern about providing an extra path to ground. That might prove to be bit more hassle. Gotta ensure the Generlink does not switch the neutral. If it doesn't, then isolating the neutral will be necessary.

 

[newbury]

This discussion combined with lack of accurate documentation is a safety headache.
All I want to do is SAFELY hook up my generator (Duromax 9000iH with bonded neutral) either to:
(1) Equipment directly - like plugging in an electric drill, or Extension cords to distribute to frig, window a/c
(2) To a proper connection and transfer switch to a subpanel to power my "critical" house circuits - a/c, microwave, etc.

But from my reading this thread it seems like (1) needs a bonded neutral and (2) needs a floating neutral.

What's the safest and easiest way to switch between?
Is a neutral-ground plug a valid solution?
neutral-ground plug

Well it's about a week later.
The maccgyver solution of disconnecting the an internal factory wire does not sit well with the lawyer.
Duromax says to use a 3 pole transfer switch. example of an automatic, but Duromax does not sell one.
Our son is going to be installing this outside under a covered porch in Mississippi. Any recommendations for an automatic 3 pole transfer switch?
Manual 3 pole transfer switches are easier to find, but recommendations for them would also be appreciated.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Well it's about a week later.
The maccgyver solution of disconnecting the an internal factory wire does not sit well with the lawyer.
Duromax says to use a 3 pole transfer switch. example of an automatic, but Duromax does not sell one.
Our son is going to be installing this outside under a covered porch in Mississippi. Any recommendations for an automatic 3 pole transfer switch?
Manual 3 pole transfer switches are easier to find, but recommendations for them would also be appreciated.

Transfer Switches

Transfer Switches Allow You to Easily Switch Between Utility & Generator Power. A Generator Transfer Switch Makes Powering Your Home Easy. An Electrical Transfer Switch Can Be Either Manual or Automatic, Depending on Your Generator. Shop for you Generator Switch Online Today & Save with Electric...

www.powerequipmentdirect.com

 

[newbury]

Transfer Switches

Transfer Switches Allow You to Easily Switch Between Utility & Generator Power. A Generator Transfer Switch Makes Powering Your Home Easy. An Electrical Transfer Switch Can Be Either Manual or Automatic, Depending on Your Generator. Shop for you Generator Switch Online Today & Save with Electric...

www.powerequipmentdirect.com

Are you recommending any specific ones?

 

[stumblinhorse]

Are you recommending any specific ones?

As you can tell from this thread there are a lot of variables for your situation and wiring. But the reliance systems seem to be a complete setup. The plug I put in was reliance is high quality and not overly expensive.

You said your son is installing something. What is he gonna install, and how is he gonna connect it. If he is adding all new stuff right at the main box, both plug and switch, the generac and reliance complete systems are a good set up.

 

[copytmpmzl]

I posted this video on your other thread, but i see you started another thread.
This thread too, will likely go off the rails due to different opinions and places that do things differently with how individuals install and/or use, their own generators.
Some info is good, some isn`t. Some gen`s are installed right, some are not. Its up to you to speak with your local electricians to make sure YOU are doing it right, in your area.

This video should help answer some questions about Bonded vs Unbonded.
Usually you see this with portable generators, where most aren`t connected to a transfer switch.

뉴 토끼

I have bonded neutral portable generator with full GFCI protection connected to a manual transfer panel in the house which also transfers the neutral. All works ok with the exception of the well. Haven't tried the sump pump. My question is this, can I connect a floating neutral portable generator to my transfer panel whichout any issues? Must I ground the portable generator outside if it is a floating neutral generator? Hopefully, I don't need to change anything in the manual transfer switch. I think the problem with existing setup it that the well being 500 ft deep loses sufficient current over the distance to trip the GFCI breaker. Thanks

 

[GeneV]

I have bonded neutral portable generator with full GFCI protection connected to a manual transfer panel in the house which also transfers the neutral. All works ok with the exception of the well. Haven't tried the sump pump. My question is this, can I connect a floating neutral portable generator to my transfer panel whichout any issues? Must I ground the portable generator outside if it is a floating neutral generator? Hopefully, I don't need to change anything in the manual transfer switch. I think the problem with existing setup it that the well being 500 ft deep loses sufficient current over the distance to trip the GFCI breaker. Thanks

I would think in this case yes to grounding the generator with a grounding rod, or am I wrong?

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Well it's about a week later.
The maccgyver solution of disconnecting the an internal factory wire does not sit well with the lawyer.
Duromax says to use a 3 pole transfer switch. example of an automatic, but Duromax does not sell one.
Our son is going to be installing this outside under a covered porch in Mississippi. Any recommendations for an automatic 3 pole transfer switch?
Manual 3 pole transfer switches are easier to find, but recommendations for them would also be appreciated.

An Automatic transfer switch needs to be connected to a generator that has sufficient ampacity to serve all the connected loads at the time the switch automatically transfers. Otherwise you run the risk of damaging a small generator.

This discussion combined with lack of accurate documentation is a safety headache.
All I want to do is SAFELY hook up my generator (Duromax 9000iH with bonded neutral) either to:
(1) Equipment directly - like plugging in an electric drill, or Extension cords to distribute to frig, window a/c
(2) To a proper connection and transfer switch to a subpanel to power my "critical" house circuits - a/c, microwave, etc.

But from my reading this thread it seems like (1) needs a bonded neutral and (2) needs a floating neutral.

What's the safest and easiest way to switch between?
Is a neutral-ground plug a valid solution?
neutral-ground plug

The Duramax generator can handle about 30 amps at 240 volts. I would reccommend a dedicated panel for the required loads you want on the generator and just transfer the the dedicated panel loads for standby circuits. Then you can use a less expensive transfer switch. 30 amp instead of a 100 amp transfer switch.

Edit: Or install panel interlocks that lock out the utility main breaker in off position and have the interlock allow a breaker for the generator to be turned on. Then turn off breakers in main panel that the generator does not have enough ampacity to serve, Manually start generator.

 

[BX23S-1]

I would think in this case yes to grounding the generator with a grounding rod, or am I wrong?

Thank you Gene for answering his question when he quoted me, i couldn`t get back in here to help him soon enough. And yes, you are correct.

 

[copytmpmzl]

An Automatic transfer switch needs to be connected to a generator that has sufficient ampacity to serve all the connected loads at the time the switch automatically transfers. Otherwise you run the risk of damaging a small generator.



The Duramax generator can handle about 30 amps at 240 volts. I would reccommend a dedicated panel for the required loads you want on the generator and just transfer the the dedicated panel loads for standby circuits. Then you can use a less expensive transfer switch. 30 amp instead of a 100 amp transfer switch.

Edit: Or install panel interlocks that lock out the utility main breaker in off position and have the interlock allow a breaker for the generator to be turned on. Then turn off breakers in main panel that the generator does not have enough ampacity to serve airbnb cleaning service 30a, Manually start generator. stucco Raleigh

thank you so much for your suggestion

 

[GeneV]

Thank you Gene for answering his question when he quoted me, i couldn`t get back in here to help him soon enough. And yes, you are correct.

Think of me as your personal posting assistant.

 

[BX23S-1]

Think of me as your personal posting assistant.

thanks pal, that`s awesome, lol

 

[GeneV]

Alls I could say though, real nice having a way to backfeed the panel, with picking/choosing which circuits to run. Just now got our power back, been out since 5pm yesterday. Everything that needed to run I had running on a 5500w Generac, just sometimes would swap the furnace going vs water boiler.

Some of my neighbors don't even have a generator at all, so they got to sit in the dark while we were in front of our tv watching Netflix (until the cable went out too).

 

[BX23S-1]

Alls I could say though, real nice having a way to backfeed the panel, with picking/choosing which circuits to run. Just now got our power back, been out since 5pm yesterday. Everything that needed to run I had running on a 5500w Generac, just sometimes would swap the furnace going vs water boiler.

Some of my neighbors don't even have a generator at all, so they got to sit in the dark while we were in front of our tv watching Netflix (until the cable went out too).

Love it!
Yep, happens where i live too...... the neighbors just snarl at me as they drive by and my wife & i have power, and they don`t.

 

[GeneV]

Love it!
Yep, happens where i live too...... the neighbors just snarl at me as they drive by and my wife & i have power, and they don`t.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[copytmpmzl]

@GeneV thank you so much for your suggestion