Grading Box Blade and Rock Rake (a.k.a. york rake?) not really doing the job. Operator lacking skills?

[Egon]

From the pictures it looks like bigger equipment may be required to move rocks and level.

 

[joea99]

You also move the attachment forward which also reduces your lift capacity.

How much weight do you add with the SSQA? Won't that reduce your already limited loader lift capability?

Both to be considered of course. It is not a big machine after all. The ATI tach-all claims 76 pounds, which seems quite low for that amount of steel.

 

[joea99]

From the pictures it looks like bigger equipment may be required to move rocks and level.

I've managed to move the bigger rocks. Getting them out of the ground has proven a real struggle for the bigger ones.

 

[duffer]

Since you're in a freeze/thaw zone, your rock problem will continue longer than you will. The freezing and thawing of the soil will push rocks to the surface forever.

So my thought is this...

Why not use the rocks to your advantage? Sounds like you've harvested enough rocks that you could use them as a significant "base" for your 30x60 "pad". Use your FEL to spread them out "evenly" (that's a stretch I know) and supplement "leveling" with box blade if needed. Then have either Crusher/run or unwashed fines brought in to fill in the cracks on the surface of the rock base below. Water it in, and you'll have the equivalent of a concrete pad (almost). Leveling out your top coat of rock with your box blade or back dragging with your FEL will put a really nice finish on it.

And it will drain well after a rain event, leaving your feet dry if you want to use your sawmill when the rest of the area is mud.

FWIW, I used this method on my ¼ mile driveway, and it works pretty well, even with all the heavy traffic on it.

(a different 2¢)

 

[joea99]

Since you're in a freeze/thaw zone, your rock problem will continue longer than you will. The freezing and thawing of the soil will push rocks to the surface forever.

Very true. The old(er) farmers liked to complain about that. Always finding new ones when they plow in the spring.

So my thought is this...

Why not use the rocks to your advantage? Sounds like you've harvested enough rocks that you could use them as a significant "base" for your 30x60 "pad". Use your FEL to spread them out "evenly" (that's a stretch I know) and supplement "leveling" with box blade if needed. Then have either Crusher/run or unwashed fines brought in to fill in the cracks on the surface of the rock base below. Water it in, and you'll have the equivalent of a concrete pad (almost). Leveling out your top coat of rock with your box blade or back dragging with your FEL will put a really nice finish on it.

And it will drain well after a rain event, leaving your feet dry if you want to use your sawmill when the rest of the area is mud.

FWIW, I used this method on my ¼ mile driveway, and it works pretty well, even with all the heavy traffic on it.

(a different 2¢)

Similar thoughts have crossed my mind. There is a low spot in my drive/road that needs exactly that, but seem wasteful to haul in stone. Not found any one that sells just fines though, best I may be able to do is smaller aggregate. They do sell 3/8 and smaller.

 

[duffer]

Very true. The old(er) farmers liked to complain about that. Always finding new ones when they plow in the spring.



Similar thoughts have crossed my mind. There is a low spot in my drive/road that needs exactly that, but seem wasteful to haul in stone. Not found any one that sells just fines though, best I may be able to do is smaller aggregate. They do sell 3/8 and smaller.

What you want is to make sure that the top layer has "dust or fines" in it. Crusher/run is ok, but unwashed screenings is the best. You want something that will compact.

 

[MattB4]

Around my area the materiel from the crusher/wash plant that they do not sell as graded rock is sold as "Dirty base". You want to avoid having it hauled when raining because it sets up like concrete and is hard to dump smoothly. It is quite a bit cheaper by the ton.

 

[joea99]

Around my area the materiel from the crusher/wash plant that they do not sell as graded rock is sold as "Dirty base". You want to avoid having it hauled when raining because it sets up like concrete and is hard to dump smoothly. It is quite a bit cheaper by the ton.

The rare times I bring in material, I try to do it during dry(er) times. Always irked me that they sell "by the ton" (mostly) but make no allowance for water weight. Never can get a good answer to "how many yards is that?"

After all, I need a "Volume" not a "weight".

Maybe I'm making too much of that, though.

 

[Skypuppy]

Know it sounds odd, but there are locations where rocks to actually "grow" year after year. My and and uncle had a farm with fields that did just that. My cousins and I, for several years in a row, cleared that field of rocks but they kept coming back! Now, I understand that is normal for very cold climates but this was in central Alabama! The closest fields to theirs were about a mile away and a farm (but only one!) on one side of them had the same problem, while on the other sides had normal dirt! Their land was extremely rocky all over it. They finally just gave up on it. In the fields area, the rocks were many sizes, some as many as 3 feet around, while the big rocks next to the road were tons and more.

 

[JBacon52]

The rare times I bring in material, I try to do it during dry(er) times. Always irked me that they sell "by the ton" (mostly) but make no allowance for water weight. Never can get a good answer to "how many yards is that?"

After all, I need a "Volume" not a "weight".

Maybe I'm making too much of that, though.

This may be close to what you're looking for? https://www.trorc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Cubic_Yardage_Chart-D.pdf

 

[cmyoung2]

Mind telling me what their kit cost? And how long ago, to account for inflation?

It was last year, maybe 18 months ago. I got the SSQA and the weldon brackets to convert teh bucket, but I don't remember what it cost. I remember I thought it was a little high, but everything fit perfect, even on the old loader. I bought it through a semi local dealer and got a grapple and forks at teh same time.

 

[fish1552]

Honestly, I gave up using my root rake and box blade for clearing stuff like the roots and some rocks (I live closer to the coast in Georgia so, not as many rocks). I got a spring-loaded tine tiller and I get much better results breaking up the soil and grabbing roots and other debris and at least bringing it to the surface where a later pass with the root rake will collect the things. I bought mine in well-used condition (read: almost no paint left but some rust) but it is similar to this: 11 TINE FIELD CULTIVATOR 3PT
I found that if I was using the box blade and hit some root or solid item, my tractor ended up bending the metal on the tine slots. If I used the root rake, it never grabbed the things I wanted. I tried a friends sub soiler and it worked fine, but it too could shear the bolts. With the tine tiller, if something was too much for it, the springs allowed it to swing back and loose from the item and not damage the equipment.

 

[EdwardL]

With a boxbade you will have to make several passes to get most of the rocks up. Don't think a York rake will help until most of the rocks and roots are up. -- I tried once, and gave up on the york. Kept making passes with the box blade.

 

[Millwood]

Years ago I opened up an acre of rocky ground with a new Kubota B3300SU, an LA 504 FEL, a rock rake and a middle buster plow. Plow brought up 6 boulders the size of washer/dryers that I sold to a landscaping company. Rock rake and FEL took care of the smaller rocks. Finally 4 dump truck loads of free wood chips from tree trimming company and the following spring I was planting. Over time the acre has produced good crops and was worth the effort to de-rock it

 

[joea99]

This may be close to what you're looking for? https://www.trorc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Cubic_Yardage_Chart-D.pdf

Thanks.

The quarry/yard I spoke to said to figure about 1.3 ton per yard for "item 4", which is 3/8 stone +fines ("bluestone").

The material is cheap enough, the trucking is gonna hurt.

 

[joea99]

No, "float" refers to the ability for the hydraulic cylinder to extend and retract on it's own, with no pressure on either side of the cylinder ports to stop it. In other words, if you put it in float, you could literally push/pull the cylinder rod in and out of the barrel, extending and retracting it with your hands.
Typically, your hydraulic valve will have a detent position, sometimes it's float, sometimes it's others. It's the same principle as using your front end loader in 'float' mode, which is obtained by pushing your loader joystick all the way forward to lower your loader, and then pushing it further past the 'detent' which will allow it to move with the undulations of the dirt as you back blade or push forward.

Try moving your top link cylinder valve all the way forward (or back) and then 'pushing' it a little more. If there is a detent, you should feel it.

Normally, as you move your 3 point hitch control up or down when your box blade is on the ground, it will raise and lower the box blade as a whole. When the top link cylinder is in 'float' mode, the 3 point hitch will only change the angle of the blades contacting the ground, and will not pick it up off the ground, since your top link will simply extend as you raise your 3 point hitch arms.

Try this, it is the 'trick' that practically eliminates your pitching motion problems. You can work much faster when you master this technique, and be considerably more effective with better results.

Lastly, I also put my side link in float mode when there is a lot of side to side action. By using the rear blade of the box blade as a 'gauge', the tractor is allowed to pitch up and down, and 'roll' side to side, however the box blade stays surprisingly level/plumb/stabil since the rear blade is moving over smooth ground.

Not sure if I addressed this already, so -

The valve I have now is a two spool, no detent, no float monoblock. I can buy detents for it, but for float, also need a different spool. The economics of doing that or just getting a new valve with those features is a toss up. Either way, the cost of floating both spools is about $100 more than just one detent/float.

Looking for excuses to NOT detent/spool both the top and side link, and save a bit of coin. Having a bit of trouble seeing the value of float on the tilt cylinder.

 

[oosik]

The OP's tractor and implement are not heavy enough to do the job. A heavier tractor and implement will "hold the line" and not require constant adjustments.

Suggest the OP get a land plane grading scraper. Almost a zero learning curve and it will flatten the area nicely.

 

[joea99]

The OP's tractor and implement are not heavy enough to do the job. A heavier tractor and implement will "hold the line" and not require constant adjustments.

Suggest the OP get a land plane grading scraper. Almost a zero learning curve and it will flatten the area nicely.

Bigger machine, etc., not in budget.

Won't a "land plane" also just jump over the big rocks?

 

[joea99]

Here is an example of the right type of rock bucket. Note the long rounded tines. A subtle difference, but it does twice the work of the rock bucket wit flat tines. We have both types.

The flat tine type - like you see in the previous post - will work. Better than nothing. I don''t know of any other way to sort rocks than a FEL rock bucket. We do have a decent heavy rock rake thatis a good one with flip-down blade, tilt, and trailing wheels. But it won't do anything with rocks at all.

I happened to be looking for used ones and see one very much like that for sale. A 48" BB-4 model. 4 hours from me though.

The Shoule web site does not show that model, BB type smallest is 6 ft. And 30-60 HP advised. Wondering inf the smaller one would be too much for the B21?

Do you find the "u-bolt" attachment to be a problem, holding up? I'd think you'd have mentioned it, but, gotta ask.

 

[tbear640]

Home owner with a Kubota B21 TLB, Woods box scraper and EA rock rake.

Attempting to level, more or less, an area of mixed soil and LOTS of rocks, ranging from "eggs" to a foot or more. Some are rounded, like "river rocks" some are sharp edged as if newly broken up. Might be "fill", but that is not documented and if it is, is many decades old. Lets throw in hidden roots and whatever root balls I may have missed when clearing out fairly dense woods. Mixed soft and hard woods from saplings to 24".

Did not expect this to be "easy" but, did not expect it to be this frustrating.

Thought that after a few passes with box scraper scarifiers "deep" and manually removing the "big rocks", I'd eventually get to the point I could begin "leveling" with the scarifiers less aggressive or removed. Not happening as there always seem to be "more rocks", just big enough to present problems.

But, the bigger issue seems to be "depth control" and "tilt" control, which, for the most part, seem very difficult to manage, even with the hydraulic top and tilt.

Thinking the rock rake might be a better solution, as far as getting the rocks out anyway, tried that. Right now I am running in reverse, with the rake pointing "aft", main reason being those "spring tines" can bend quite a bit on bigger rocks and might use my head for target practice. The other reason is allows me to push the debris out of the tractor path making a second pass simpler.

So, that said, what I see the problems being are
1 - the tractor pitches both side to side and end to end, and the implement "follows at a distance", so I would have to move extremely slowly and make almost constant adjustment to the implement. Maybe keeping the implement "high" and making many more passes is the answer here?
2 - the rocks that seem to "spring up out of the ground" in anticipation of my implements arrival cause the implement to "bounce".

I'm off to HF for some cheap magnetic spirit levels, currently "on sale" hoping that attaching them to the implements will allow me to address #1 a bit more precisely.

It's entirely possible the equipment I have is simply not well suited to the task, but, I'm pretty much stuck with what I have as hiring someone or renting for the week or month (at the pace I work at 70+), is not in the cards. Especially as I have a house addition in the plans.

Not sure if I'm looking for tutorials, advice, or just venting, but, there it is.

I love my box blade as it works very well for grading. Depending on the size and quantity of rocks you could use a plow or my box blade has tines that I’ve used before that works good when only using a few of the tines from the center of the box blade.Either way works as long as you don’t have an Exuberant amount of rocks it’s feasible. Sometimes it’s A pia but it works.If you don’t want to spend the time then bring in truck loads of dirt. Essentially it’s a call that you must decide, you could use one of these methods on a small area to see if it is the what you want to tackle. Good Luck