Box Scraper Box Blade Scraper Repairs

[smgutsch]

I started this discussion on the thread begun by Giddyup "Box blade opp. Will it work for me? (Mine was response #46). I had come across an add for "Gill box scraper for 3 pt. hitch 65" wide x 30" deep." There were some pictures supplied (I posted them in response #65). They didn't show much. I called the guy but he couldn't tell me much about the particulars but he thought it was in pretty good shape. Well on Saturday the 14th I told the wife I was going to look at a possible diamond in the rough and took a drive out to look at it. I was very disappointed. The guy failed to tell me the back blade was missing, The front blade was bent, and he could only find 3 scarifier teeth. Having drove over an hour to see it plus wading through a quarter mile of mud to where it was I figured I'd offer a low price and when the guy rejected it I could go look for a better box blade. Unfortunately he accepted my offer.

So, my questions are:
1. How is the best way to straighten the blade? The lower portion is a sandwich of: 1/2" x 6" hard steel blade, 3/16" - 1/4" Curved part (not sure what to call it like a plow share) and backed by a 2-1/2 x 3 x 1/2" thick angle welded on. Plow bolts go through the 3 leg. Should I:
A.) Straighten it with everything as is.
B.) Remove the hard steel blade and straighten the angle and share together. Then straighten the blade seperately?
C.) Remove the hard steel blade and cut off the angle. Then straighten the share and weld on a new angle?
Has anyone done this before? What has worked?

2. I have 3 Scarifier teeth. There are slots for 9. How many teeth do I really need? Teeth cost $37.74
3. I did some research. It was definitely made by Gill, Woods owns Gill and the only Scraper they show that is 65 wide and has slots for 9 teeth is a model B10. Does anyone own one of these or can verify by the pictures attached that it is in fact a B10?
4. How badly do I need the back blade? Woods does not show one on their parts list, but with some design help I think I could fabricate one. The 1/2" x 6" x 65" cutting blade cost $78.12

I appreciate any advice I can get. I'm new to this. I just built the barn last year and I want to finish the drive this year. The last picture shows why I want to get another 3-6" of gravel on the drive. The gravel is in the background I just need to spread it.

P.S. When I got home after delivering the box blade to the barn, I was a bit muddy, a little disappointed and very much in trouble with the wife. Somehow all she heard me say was "I was going out to get something special? and "something about a diamond in the rough". I totally forgot that on February 14th a body is not supposed to be thinking about box scrapers and definitely not referring to farm equipment as "diamond" anything. But that's another story.

 

[sandman2234]

Yep, you really stepped in it on the 14th!
Hopefully you will be able to get it together and get HER driveway fixed!
David from jax

 

[KennyV]

To start with teeth you don't need any , unless you are going to rip up tight packed dirt, rocks. Then you may need all of them.
The bend in the blade, you will probably find very difficult to get perfect, but you really don't need it perfect... actually it will likely do everything you want it to do just like it is. The rear blade is handy but again the need is of some question. That rear blade will make it both heavier and stronger, both are good for BB.

You did not say how much did you pay for it. You still may have a great deal compared to buying a new one. KennyV

PS I would not want to be on a tractor flying along fast enough to bend a BB like that.

 

[teg]

Nice lake Go ahead and start using it for the rock you have, straight edges are not needed to move that rock. Do you have a place to drian that water to... away from the road? Tilt the BB and cut a ditch with it... also, don't need a straight edge for that.

If you pick up the BB is the bottom edge worn flat? You may not have to do much to it. Just learn how to use it as is... I would try and get a rear blade for it. I use my RB to level things out; my front blade is only for cutting...

 

[archeryantny]

The bend was probably due to the missing back blade.

 

[Gittyup]

Well Smugutsch, you've bought yourself a project just like I did.

First off, you are missing the entire rear plate, not just the rear blade. It's supposed to be a hinged back blade that mounts where you see the pin receptacles. This plate rests against those support fins you have there. It is also a complex piece of steel, at least as originally designed, with several folds, kinks, and more support structures welded to the back. While it's possible to make one, you have to decide if it's worth the trouble and expense. Go to Woods website and look for hinged boxblade. The new designs are similar. I wouldn't bet that a new one would fit either, at least not without modification. But, at least you can see what it is supposed to look like.

On the old Gill that I bought the back blade is identical to the front. You are able to get new blades. Just measure the hole locations and number and they can match it. If you can get it for under $100, that would be a good deal.

As for the other blade, you probably can use it just like it is. If the bolts are loose, it might straighten some by tightening. However, the blade is hardened steel: very difficult to work.

If you take that blade off, you might find what I have: that the mounting holes are broken out. I have to drill and weld in a new piece to attach my blade to in that wedge.

The missing scarifiers is another bummer, as you have found out how expensive they are.

If I had that box, I'd probably just use it like it is. I wouldn't even paint it. It will work fine for spreading and leveling your gravel, I think.

If you want a more fully functioning box, I'd just look for another one.

 

[Gittyup]

Here are some photos of the hinged rear plate. The first has it tied up, open. You can how complicated it is, and where the actual blade mounts. The second one it is closed.

 

[kebo]

The bend was probably due to the missing back blade.

Looks to me like that model has a floating backblade. If so, it would add very little support to the front blade when pulling material in the forward direction, especially at the bottom edge of the front blade. I think you could probably straighten out that blade with a good size hydraulic bottle jack. The problem would be getting the blade and the jack positioned between two immovable objects to apply the pressure. Like if you could sit the front part of the boxblade where the two front corners are flush against two big trees, and then a third tree in the middle of the backside of the blade, then lay the jack horizontal and see if you could "jack" the bend out of it. If it started bending in one spot instead pushing on the whole blade, then you could put a piece of thick heavy flatstock between the jack and the blade so it would spread out the pressure more evenly. If you could straighten it out like that, it would surely be a lot less work than taking it apart to do it!
Good luck!
Keith

 

[E_Sanborn]

...Having drove over an hour to see it plus wading through a quarter mile of mud to where it was I figured I'd offer a low price and when the guy rejected it I could go look for a better box blade. Unfortunately he accepted my offer......

I dunno, smgutsch, looks pretty good to me for most BB work... I bet a few of us will be envious if we heard the price you paid... Of course, the real price will be compounded by the interest of your better half reminding you for your faux pas for the next decade or two.. ES

 

[john_bud]

Torch off the bolts that hold the cutting edge (the removable part). Heat the support structure with a torch (o/ac with large rosebud tip), then whack the bend out of it with a 8# sledge. Bolt on a new cutting edge. The cutting edge is probably high carbon steel and it won't like being heated or beaten. You could have a shop with a press straighten it (or try). It may shatter. New cutting edge would be in the $10-20 per linear ft.

Or just use as is.

jb

 

[smgutsch]

Thanks everybody for responding. I paid $250 for it as is, loaded on the truck.
If I can find a back plate - blade and the price is reasonable, I'l buy it.
Has anyone seen scarifier teeth at any farm sales or auctions? Or should I just give up on finding them used and just buy new ones? I probably won't be needing them till mid summer.
I got the box blade for the driveway. But, I read on TBN about using it to make drainage ditches, so, I thought I'd give that a try. As some of you noted I could just use it as is. But, it is winter and I was looking for a winter project. I think I've got about 6 weeks to get it in shape.

KennyV:
Sometime I would like build more driveway. I think I may need the scarifiers for that.

Teg:
The bottom edge is well worn. I think a lot of the wear happened after the blade was bent. So even is I straighten it the edge won't be straight. I'd like to flip the blade because the other edge has not been used. But as it is, the bends would end up in different places.

Giddyup:
I saw your pictures. The hardest part of fabricating a back plate is getting bends that accommodate the blade just right. I also wondered about all the different support pieces you have on your back plate.
You said your holes are broken out. On mine it looks like the holes go through the back plate (1/4" and the angle (1/2"). Do you have an angle welded to the back plate? And did the hole break through the angle also?

Kebo: I was kind of thinking the same thing. Bottle jack versus some immovable object.

The main problem is I can't do anything about it this week end. I have to make up for what I didn't do with the wife last weekend. It seems like I'm always in trouble with the wife for things I didn't do.

 

[Gittyup]

The holes that are broken through on mine are for the front blade. And yes, they are broken through both the thin face plate as well as the thick piece in the wedge. I couldn't tell this until I cut the bolts off and removed the blade. Yours looks more intact in this area.

There is no heavy backing for the rear blade, just the 1/8" hinge plate. Holes are fine, as you can see, with just a few bent up places. My new rear blade has made it to the dealer. Plan to pick up tomorrow.

Are you really going to try to fab a back plate? I'd be impressed by both your determination and skill if you did. That would be a lot of work.

Try tractor salvage yards for scarifiers. How do your scarifiers attach? Mine use a long rod the length of the box that sets in behind the scarifiers so that the notches stay engaged. When you go looking take one of the ones you have with you to be sure to get ones that are compatible.

 

[john_bud]

There is no heavy backing for the rear blade, just the 1/8" hinge plate. Holes are fine, as you can see, with just a few bent up places. My new rear blade has made it to the dealer. Plan to pick up tomorrow.

Are you really going to try to fab a back plate? I'd be impressed by both your determination and skill if you did. That would be a lot of work.

.

Any 1/2 way decent sheet metal fabrication shop could bend up an 1/8 inch sheet to accept the blade. That's about a 10 minute job to select the material, measure, shear, and bend it twice on the brake. I'd be VERY surprised if the price of the finished plate was over 100 bucks. Around here, I could have that made (plate with the kink) done for $50. Then it's just drilling holes, adding the cutting edge and welding on the loops for the top rod.

What did the dealer charge (just curious).

jb

 

[Gittyup]

You are right. With the right tools (brake and shear), it can be shaped and cut. But, around here the raw material alone would be more than $50. Unless you know the shop well, the labor would easily be another $50 to $75, if not more in these parts. Then you have to make the back support plates, weld on hinge receptacles, and add hinge pins. I don't think I could get it built for less than $150. And then you have to buy a blade, right at another $100.

If you can find cheap scrap, including a used blade, and have access to free bending/cutting tools, then maybe you could get it done for $100 in total. Then it might make sense.

I'm generally not afraid to put some sweat equity into things as is evidenced by my box blade project. But, I wouldn't take this on. By the time he's done, he could easily have over $600 in that thing, and that's without scarifiers. I'd just use it like it is and if I needed something better, I'd sell that one and buy a different one.

I have no idea what a dealer would charge for that back plate. Would be afraid to even ask.

 

[Gittyup]

Picked up my replacement blade today. It was $88 plus tax. Not too bad for hardened steel.

Then I asked for plow bolts. Boy was I ever surprised at what they cost: $7 each plus .30 for the nut. I needed twelve. Wasn't counting on that expense. Just one more thing to remember when you take on these kinds of projects. Good hardware ain't cheap. But, in this case, I thought it was better than substituting cheap hardware. I think that contributed to the holes being broken out.

 

[smgutsch]

Well I'm back. I made up with the wife by taking her to Florida for a long weekend. That weather sure made me want to get back and start working on the driveway. Of course when I got back the snow and rain kind of put a damper on outside work. So, tomorrow it's back to the box scraper.

Giddyup:
I looked at your picture closer and I see you have the angle welded on. From the picture it looks like your front blade may also be bent. Will that cause a problem with the back blade?
Sorry to hear about what you paid for the plow bolts. I bought some from the bolt supplier here at work for about $9.00 per pack of 10 (5/8" x 2" grade 8). If I would have known they were that expensive for you, I would have sent you my leftovers.

John_Bud:
I was thinking the same thing as you. First I'm going to see if I can straighten the front blade. If I am successful I'll explore a fabricated back blade. I have a buddy who works at a steel fabricator. If I supply him with the metal he might be able to bend it for me. If it seems feasible I will be back looking for some design help.

 

[Gittyup]

Yes. My front blade support is slightly bent. But only about an inch. And the blade is not bent. I think I can make it work without straightening it.

No the front blade and back blade don't share much in common. Back blade mounts to the hinged plate. Front blade mounts to a fixed angle iron running across the bottom. It is actuall the angle iron that is bent. I've made up a patch plate for the front blade that I will weld into the angle iron. It has new mounting holes for the front blade.

I wouldn't make a blade if I were you. It should be made from hardened steel if you want it to last. You might be able to pick up an old one at a salvage yard and cut it to fit or something. But a new one is only $88 (for a 6').

Yep. Plow bolts. Looked at TSC. They don't even cary 5/8" plow bolts. What kinda tractor supply are they, anyway? Still might take these back for credit if I can find cheaper replacements.

 

[mojoinco]

I only find value for the back blade as a smoothing edge. Though if I ever get a BB that fits my newer tractor I might find out (the arms on old tractor were to flimsy to cut backwards).

 

[sandman2234]

Your lucky, as taking my wife to Florida wouldn't get me out of the dog house. Maybe if I took her to the Smokie mountains, or north Arkansas (S. Missouri)
Where in Florida did you take her?
David from jax

 

[smgutsch]

Sorry I couldn't get back to you guys sooner. I had to fix the computer. I hate fixing things that don't require an 8 lb hammer in the tool kit.

Sandman, I took her as far south as you could go and still be in the U.S. She wanted warm weather and sunshine and I was going to do my best to give it to her. I just never expected it to take 4 hours to drive from the airport in Fort Lauderdale to Key West. While She was looking at the old homes and gift shops, I was looking at the soil. That soil looks like crushed coral. It must have been really difficult to get any kind of a garden or farm going on the island back in the old days. I guess now all they do is plant resorts and watch them grow.

Well I had a chance to work in the box blade. First I heated the blade to about 100- 150 oF. (warm but not to hot to touch.) It was very cold in the barn and I was afraid the blade would be brittle and break if it was to cold. Then I took an old railroad rail (100lb/yd) and chained (3/8" grade 8) it to the box. (see picture below) I put the bottle jack between it and the bent blade. I had to put the 4x4's behind the chain in front of the blade in order to keep the jack pushing in a straight line against the bent area. I jacked it until it was about 1/2" - 1" past being straight, so that when I released the jack it came back to straight. I was looking at the angle Iron behind the blade for straightness because the cutting edge of the blade was severely worn. (see picture). In fact it had 1/2" worn off at the ends and 1" worn off in the middle.

When I finished I took the blade off, flipped it over and bolted it back on. See the last picture. I was pretty pleased with myself. It went from abot 4" out of straight to about 1/4" out. (Full disclosure: It took me several attempts and about 2-3 hours to get that far.)

Now I need to decide what to do about the scarifiers. I have 3. I have slots for 9. How many should I buy? They cost $38.00 each.

BTW: when I say blade sometimes I mean the cutting edge and sometimes I mean the plate with cutting edge attached.

As far as the back blade/plate I can't seem to get a good idea on how badly I need one. I can see where it would be handy if you are back filling a hole, but I don't know if you ever need to do actual scraping with it.

Speaking of the back blade, I can't figure out how the hinge pin for it works. I would have thought that a round bar would go all the way through the side plates. But I notice that there is nothing protruding past the side plates. Is there a reason for that?

Thanks everyone for your help. I still would like to know:
1. How many scarifiers do I need?
2. How important is the hinged back blade?
3. Is it bad to have shafts, bolts etc. protruding outside the side plates? Do they catch on things or what. I just notice that all side plates are nice and smooth, nothing sticking out.