Box Blading in reverse

[Dyer retired]

OK, so I took the duplicate quote out, so people can wonder what you're talking about. Now if I could just remember what an Easter egg is . . .

Bird,

As my eye Doctor tells me, "The bad news is that your eyes are getting worse.....the good news is that it's perfectly normal." I think it's the same way with the memory. I came in the other day from the garage to get some 1/4" bolts for my snowblower chute and as I was passing the washing machine thought, "I might as well do a load of laundry." I then thought it would be good to brew a pot of coffee, while I checked my e-mails and the coffee brewed, so I did. I went down cellar and checked on a glue-up job on a lamp I am building, before going out and changing the oil on the truck. It was 2:00 p.m. before I remembered what I had started out doing.

Just a little snow left in the woods here Bird, but the driveway is dry now and I can level it off this week with the back blade. Temperatures aren't quite equal to Texas yet, but have been above average the last two weeks. It looks like you are out of the stormy weather for now? Dyer, retired

 

[Bird]

Temperatures aren't quite equal to Texas yet, but have been above average the last two weeks. It looks like you are out of the stormy weather for now?

Last night our forecast was a 90% chance of rain, high winds, hail, and possible tornado, mostly between 1 and 7 a.m. this morning. The north wind was whipping the trees a bit this morning, but nothing serious, temperature of 54, I got a tenth of an inch of rain, and the forecast is for a low of 42 tonight. I mowed the yard yesterday so it sure didn't hurt for it to get watered a little bit. Of course, I had mowed on the 22nd and then again yesterday on the 26th; just 4 days and it really needed mowing. This time of year you can almost watch the grass grow.

 

[Dyer retired]

Last night our forecast was a 90% chance of rain, high winds, hail, and possible tornado, mostly between 1 and 7 a.m. this morning. The north wind was whipping the trees a bit this morning, but nothing serious, temperature of 54, I got a tenth of an inch of rain, and the forecast is for a low of 42 tonight. I mowed the yard yesterday so it sure didn't hurt for it to get watered a little bit. Of course, I had mowed on the 22nd and then again yesterday on the 26th; just 4 days and it really needed mowing. This time of year you can almost watch the grass grow.

I guess you aren't quite out of the bad weather cycle yet...I need to pay closer attention to the National weather. Sounds like you escaped damage and the worst of what they predicted. We are at a high level of Forest Fire danger here. You wouldn't think so with all the snow, but the heavy snow knocked a lot of twigs and branches from the trees and with dry weather for the last 3 weeks, it's becoming a problem. The other side of that is that because the snow melt has been steady, we don't have the rivers up North overflowing the banks. The weathermen are predicting big rains Tuesday and Wednesday, so that should help the fire index go down. I can't mow my lawn here because it's still saturated with water and the tractor would sink out of sight. It will probably be another 3 weeks or so before I can think about it. John

 

[john_bud]

Speaking of bad weather, we just missed getting a dumping of snow. Brainerd MN got over 12" of heavy wet white wonder!

We had soccer games called due to the weather being 34F and 20-30mph winds with gusts that were just nasty!

By the way, we lost our last snow pile in the yard last week Tuesday!

jb

 

[Dyer retired]

Speaking of bad weather, we just missed getting a dumping of snow. Brainerd MN got over 12" of heavy wet white wonder!

We had soccer games called due to the weather being 34F and 20-30mph winds with gusts that were just nasty!

By the way, we lost our last snow pile in the yard last week Tuesday!

jb

Glad you missed the 12" of snow. We still have some snow in the woods, but consider winter over when the ice goes out on the lakes. That happened the beginning of last week, so I think we're home safe on the snow front. The "ice out" on the lakes in Northern Maine won't happen for another couple of weeks, but they're getting the warm temperatures, so they might see it go a little early this year....May 8th is the average on the Canadian border. Dyer, retired

 

[3RRL]

When using your box blade is it OK to push dirt in reverse? I have a blade on the back so, I assumed it was intended for this. I have found that I have bent my upper 3 point link and it could of only been done by going in reverse. I don't feel I done anything excessively when pushing and I don't believe I致e hit a solid object. It's always a slow push anyway and I would think the force would be applied to the whole 3-point and not just the upper link.

I've been cutting in for a turnaround driveway and the edges stay high because of when going forward on outside of the turnaround bend the box does not stay up on the cut in edge. The way I've handling this is doing the outside edge by going in reverse and I can then keep the box along the cut in edge.

Is this wrong to do? Of anything to be the week point I prefer it to be this top link.

How is your turnaround driveway doing?
Do you have any photos to share how you've been using the boxblade?

 

[Dyer retired]

John, Here is a link to when I bent them and straightened them out.

Pushing In New Roads and Trails

It was while I was cutting in some new roads and trails. I used a hydraulic press and a little heat to straighten back. Then I used some old scarifiers from my boxblade and welded them onto the bottom. The scarifiers are slightly heat treated so they are very strong. They are just under 3/4" thick or so, and about 2-1/2" wide. I put them where the links would most likely bend.

Here are some photos of the links before the repair.



These show them straightened out and the "T" reinforcement. I put several heavy duty beads of weld on them. No problems since that repair.

Rob,

Well, I finally got my bent lower link straightened and my neighbor welded a 3/8" by 2" length of square stock steel to the bottoms of both links in the form of an upside down "T", as you did with yours. They are now painted and back on the BX1800. I sold my neighbor my 6 foot blade and bought a 5 foot Woods blade to replace it. I think my tractor will handle the smaller blade a little better. I followed your thread on the roads you put in with the box blade (pushing the box in reverse) that initially bent your lower links and am looking for any update on problems you have, or haven't, experienced since the reinforcement was made? The attached picture probably doesn't clearly show both the inside and outside views of the links, but the square stock is positioned equally on the link and a weld bead run down the full length of each side. Dyer, retired

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Very Nice reinforcement job...a few weeks ago when I bent one of mine up on my 3520 (had less then 10 hours on it at the time)...I had contemplated strengthening them up, But I figured I was using the machine/3pt in a way it wasnt designed and strengthening the arms would just make a bigger/more expensive piece break...

 

[Dyer retired]

Very Nice reinforcement job...a few weeks ago when I bent one of mine up on my 3520 (had less then 10 hours on it at the time)...I had contemplated strengthening them up, But I figured I was using the machine/3pt in a way it wasnt designed and strengthening the arms would just make a bigger/more expensive piece break...

Spudland_Dave,

Thanks, I'm lucky to be surrounded with neighbors that all have tractors and repair materials. We heated the link to "red hot" and pounded it severely! It took several heating and pounding sessions to get it back to where it was straight. We ground the surfaces before we started welding, so it was all clean to begin with. My neighbor has an old stick welder and we got very good penetration with the welds....I'm doubtful that they'll fail in my lifetime.

It makes me wonder....if it takes that much to straighten it, how much force there was to bend it. I had the same concerns about reinforcing the links and breaking something more expensive, but opted for the reinforcement after a lot of reading and communication with 3RRL. He created pretty much an entire road on his property primarily box blading in reverse. I got my repair idea from him and he's had no problems with his (up to April...from the thread I was reading.) I'm hoping he'll give us an update, but anticipate he's not had problems because he's always very willing to post what works and doesn't work, with pictures to demonstrate. I bent mine on an ice packed snow bank last winter when slamming the blade into it. The ice pack caught the corner of the blade and stopped everything up quick....bent the link and turnbuckle chain link also. I plan to take it slower and have gone to a smaller blade also. Pushing snow with the blade in reverse works very well for me on the lighter storms and I also plan on trying some skids on the bottoms of the blade, so it won't be digging in prior to the ground freezing up. My thought was that if 3RRL is o.k. with how he's using his links after the repair with such a significant project as he was working on,....I should be o.k. pushing some very light stuff and not slamming the banks. I'm just hoping that I don't get to try it out too soon, ha!

I had given some thought to rigging up two springs from midway along the top of the blade, connecting to the front of the blade frame near where it connects to the 3 point hitch, and then pulling the locking pin.....kind of free floating with the springs keeping tension on the blade position. I was thinking that if the springs kept the blade somewhere near where I wanted it when pushing snow, but gave a little if hitting something hard, it might take some force off the links....unless, of course, I hit the object dead center of the blade where the links would still take all the impact. I just don't know if the idea is plausible or not?

What part of Maine are you in Spudland_Dave?

Dyer, retired

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Dyer,
I'm in the Oxford area....
Your idea sounds like it might work, getting the tension just right and having it "return" to center might be the hard part.
I didnt have to straighten mine out, Luckily they warrantied it...but I've straightened much larger items up home (Aroostook) on the 60 Ton Press. Sledge Hammers & the ol Heat Wrench work but really take their toll on you, LOL..
I just see things as you NEED to have a weak link...when the weak link is a designed item they are usually easily replaceable (like shear pins, etc)... My biggest fear was cracking the mount point for the 3pt right off the Trans Housing...that would be a tad more expensive then a new draft link! LOL..

Sad part is box blading in reverse works so nicely. I now do all rough work going foward and only do finish work in reverse.

 

[Dyer retired]

Spudland_Dave,

My first impression, before the link bent, was that if the blade hadn't been meant to push in reverse, it wouldn't have had 5 pin placement holes. I had a 6 foot blade at the time, which was probably a little big for my BX1800....I've gone to a 5 foot Woods blade now. I think with skids or shoes on the bottom, I'll really limit the potential for damage, but might try the spring theory too. I don't know how to calculate what size springs I need and may have to play with it a bit.

Well, it gets more interesting all the time! I was born and raised in Caribou....moved down to Belgrade in 1996 as part of the job, so now I'll ask what part of the County are you from. John

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I'm From St. Agatha....came down for college and the money kept me down here I still love it up home...still take a week off every fall to go home and work harvest.

I hear ya...Same applies to the cutting edge on the BACK of my GB65! I figured it was there, so I might as well use it, LOL..

 

[3RRL]

Rob,

Well, I finally got my bent lower link straightened and my neighbor welded a 3/8" by 2" length of square stock steel to the bottoms of both links in the form of an upside down "T", as you did with yours. They are now painted and back on the BX1800. I sold my neighbor my 6 foot blade and bought a 5 foot Woods blade to replace it. I think my tractor will handle the smaller blade a little better. I followed your thread on the roads you put in with the box blade (pushing the box in reverse) that initially bent your lower links and am looking for any update on problems you have, or haven't, experienced since the reinforcement was made? The attached picture probably doesn't clearly show both the inside and outside views of the links, but the square stock is positioned equally on the link and a weld bead run down the full length of each side. Dyer, retired

John,
That is a magnificent job or reinforcing your drag links. Heck, I'm jealous now because they look way better than mine ever did! They should work for every kind of bulldozing you'll be doing in reverse without any problems. I really don't think they will bend ever again.
Great job!

You asked how mine were doing.
I've used them over and over again since that reinforcement, which was almost 2 years ago, and still have had no failure. None with the drag links or where they're attached to the tractor. Also since that repair, I started all the ground prep for our log home construction (which is done now). So I'll bet I got about another 150 to 200 hours on the boxblade making the pads and trails I built since then.
I'm taking the liberty of posting a few more pics of bull dozing in reverse, and a couple short videos too... you can see how much pressure there must be on those links with all 4 wheels spinning like that, trying to contour that trail.

 

[Dyer retired]

I'm From St. Agatha....came down for college and the money kept me down here I still love it up home...still take a week off every fall to go home and work harvest.

I hear ya...Same applies to the cutting edge on the BACK of my GB65! I figured it was there, so I might as well use it, LOL..

Of course I know where St. Agatha is, ha! I spent many summers at Martin's Store in Sinclair with friends all around Long Lake. We had a camp at Madawaska Lake beside Stan's Store and spent all summer there each year. Small world. I guess we are all moving South, but like you, some relatives still live in Caribou, so I get up there once in awhile. I try my hardest to stay away during harvest....bad potato picking memories, ha! John

 

[Dyer retired]

Rob,

Thanks for the pictures and, especially, the video. That box blade is pushing some serious earth and if you haven't had problems in two years using it in that manner, then I'm not going to worry about my links and the work I use them for. The video's were awesome and certainly confirm that the links are strong enough to hold against four wheels spinning and also demonstrates what you had talked about in previous threads regarding the tractor housing being able to withstand those same forces. I'm comfortable now....thanks. By the way, very nice dual set of grapples on the bucket! I also noticed that your Box Blade was manufactured by some company named
"3RRL"...must be a coincidence, ha! John

 

[deputyrpa]

I have pulled and pushed a KK 6' box blade with my Jinma 284, with brutality, for 6 years. I've overworked the blade (and Jinma) on a 400-acre farm grading and ditching clay farm roads mixed with a splattering of course gravel, grading and ditching logging trails in woods full of rock outcroppings, dislodging and pushing 1-ton plus rocks from pastures and fields, collecting and piling tons of horse manure/hay mix from the horse pens and plowing snow including smashing snow piles back to make room for more. I've twisted the frame like a pretzel many times, snapped the sprung steel top link framing, snapped the 1/2" box arm twice, and destroyed many hitch pins. I had not bent or broken any tractor part - top link, lift arms or housing pins. Here are some pics of the bruised and then beefed up box blade (now mounted on my Kioti DK 45):







Now that it's all gussied up, I went out and snapped my Jinma lift arm while trying to dislodge a buried boulder in reverse. Yes, the lift arms are under load in pushing backwards - not the top link.

Although I was abusive, the box blade is intented to be used both ways, but one should be careful with the aggressiveness of the tilt....and it's not a backhoe!

 

[Spudland_Dave]

.....I've twisted the frame like a pretzel many times, snapped the sprung steel top link framing, snapped the 1/2" box arm twice, and destroyed many hitch pins. I had not bent or broken any tractor part - top link, lift arms or housing pins..........Now that it's all gussied up, I went out and snapped my Jinma lift arm while trying to dislodge a buried boulder in reverse. Yes, the lift arms are under load in pushing backwards - not the top link.

Precisely my point...SOMETHING's gotta give...before all the bracing the BB itself was the weak link. My GB65 is built like a tank...which is why the Lift Arm bent like a taco. I figure if I braced up the lift arms and used the BB too agressively in Reverse something expensive would break.

 

[Dyer retired]

deputyrpa,

Sorry to hear about the snapped lift arm....how much will that be for a repair (or do you have to replace it) cost? I'm feeling better about this all the time....if you and 3RRL aren't seeing significant issues with the use you both are getting from much larger implement use with much more power behind it than I will ever use, then I think I will never see issues with how I use my blade. Your box blade reinforcements look like they will hold now? Thanks! Dyer, retired

 

[RobJ]

John,
I really don't think they will bend ever again.
Great job!

Now I think I have mentioned this before, but still watch the ramming speed when going in reverse. The lift arms may not bend but that force will be transfered to something else. I think we have all seen the top links that were pulled off the rear of the tractor breaking the cast. It would really be a bad day to bust off a lower link connection from my tractor and see 7 gallons of tractor oil running on the ground.

I think pushing does the damage because in most cases we can't get enought traction so we use go to ramming the stuff. I was pushing some stuff the other day and had to catch myself. When I pulled the stuff it just seems to work better.

 

[3RRL]

lol ... Ramming excluded, of course!
Even just pushing one encounters resistance (greater than just pushing) in the form of a bump or an immovable object. Using an appropriate speed helps to lessen the "ramming" scenario. But excess forces are still there and pop up unexpectedly at the most inconvenient times. IMHO, the ideal scenario would be to have all the components involved, including the implement to linkages/connections to the tractor itself, where they could all stand enough force to not bend or break before loss of traction occurs.

Where is that point and how do you determine that?
It has a lot to do with the power and size of your tractor. I'm kind of dumb so I use the old fashion way ... push till it pops and fix it. Pretty soon I'll run out of power and traction before stuff bends or breaks. I'm sure you've seen some of my threads where (to my chagrin) I've reluctantly shared my "dumbness" with you on several occasions. It's not my recommendation of course, but in my case I'm resolved to deal with it.