Box Blading in Reverse

DAP · Jun 30, 2004

I've seen many posts by folks tackling leveling projects with their Boxblades by going in reverse (implement first).

I understand this will alleviate a ground contact problem created by changes in elevation as the tractor wheels move through rise and falls.

My question: Wouldn't this reverse approach put some serious stresses on the lower arms and perhaps the top link also? Compared to the mass of the box itself, the lower arms seem vulnerable to bending, breaking or failing otherwise.

Now I've never done this yet, but it very well could be in my future as I have a serious drive problem. I haven't decided whether to tackle it myself with a box or have a dozer contract do it.

Clearly, implements on standard tractor designs were made to pull things - pushing things backwards seems a lil nebulous.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 30, 2004

I think you might be right about added stress, but I just did some reverse box blading last weekend. I never thought about it before, but I would suspect that the linkage arms are probably better suited for pulling than for pushing, however, I've never had a problem (yet). Then again, I try not to abuse machines.

Also not all box blades have dual blades (on forward facing & on reverse facing) but mine does, so it is designed for pulling or pushing.

Bird · Jun 30, 2004

Doug, we've had messages posted on the forum regarding the bending of the lower arms of the 3-point hitch by pushing backwards with a box blade. I don't recall all the details of make and model of tractor, whether it was steady push or ramming into something, etc., but I've sure used a box blade to push backwards a lot myself with my two Kubotas, frequently pushing until the resistance stopped the tractor and I spun the wheels, and I've never damaged anything. Of course, I never ran backwards and rammed into what I was going to push. I've no doubt those lower links are made for, and are stronger, pulling forward rather than pushing backwards, but of course, I don't know to how great an extent.

BubbaJr · Jun 30, 2004

I have at least 100 hours on my 60" KK boxblade going forward and reverse. I've hit roots, rocks, and stumps that have stopped my tractor and almost thrown me off the seat ( I know, I should have worn my seatbelt). I hit one stump so hard that it bent the rear blade on my boxblade and I had to remove the blade and staighten it out. Other than that I haven't had any trouble with my boxblade, but it looks like it went through WW III. I should also mention that my boxblade saved my life. I was trying to pull a 3" diameter maple tree that I had cut off at about 4' above the ground. I hooked a chain to the tree, ran it under the boxblade, and hooked the other end to a twisted clevis on my drawbar. When I pulled with the tractor the bark broke loose from the tree and the chain slid up tree peeling the bark off. I turned around just in time to see the hook and the end of the chain coming straight for my face at about 100 MPH. Fortunatly I was lucky enough (NOT smart enough) to hook up the chain so that it got to the end of it's travel (wrapping around the bottom of my boxblade) before it got to my head. That was probably my most intense pants soiling moment on my tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

My 3PH arms and toplink are still in fine shape with almost 600 hours on my Kubota B2910. Now the loader arms are another story. I managed to bend one arm so that one side of my bucket hits the barn floor about an inch or so before the other side. I don't know whether I did it trying to move 2-3' diameter trees, or digging into rocks, or moving other solid objects. All I know is that my arms should be bent up like pretzels with some of the things I've put them through. No one to blame but myself though, so I've learned to live with it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slowrev · Jun 30, 2004

Bird is right, Your 3 point hitch is designed to pull not push. However many have abused them by pushing without ill effects. Some have damaged things though... your call... damage of this type to your 3 point hitch might not be covered by warranty...

Dave___in___CT · Jun 30, 2004

Hi...

Bent the top link on my new Kubota L3130 this 1st winter pushing a 6' grader blade backwards in snow/snow piles...

Thinking may be because the screw parts of the link were extended... and/or softer metal in the threaded link...

Never had this happen with the same blade and a Deere 750 that saw years of this usage... and a lot more each year... including moving soil backwards...

Dave...

BB_TX · Jun 30, 2004

I do all my ripping, digging, and heavy pulling going forward. Then do most of my leveling of the loosened soil going backward. Works best for me and I don't have to worry about stressing the arms.

SCB · Jun 30, 2004

bent my lower arm and check chain bolt when I was going backwards with my boxblade. Hit a buried stump and it ben. Go slow and ease up if you encounter any resistance.

Zoomie · Jun 30, 2004

I don't use my box blade much, but I do push with my grader blade quite often and have never felt concern for the lower arms or top link.

Good luck.

AndyMA · Jun 30, 2004

As I've said before I've got hundreds of hours on my LandPride 8 foot boxblade in the 17 years I've owned it. Almost all of it is with my Ford 2120 which is somewhat heavier frame than a TC45. My usage is almost 50-50 forward and reverse. I just got off a job where I pushed over 10 20 yard loads of gravel, all of the piles were knocked over in reverse adn then leveled going both ways. My 3pt arms are still as good as new. The box has a few bendsd. Tomorrow I will be doing a 300 yard job. I think the problem some of you are having is using too large of a box on a light duty tractor. There is quite a bit of leverage if you catch the edges of a wide box.

Andy

Ricco · Jul 1, 2004

You guys are lucky if all you did was bend your lift linkage. I just fixed a tractor. The guys was blading in reverse with his boxscraper. He hit a stump, probably at high speeds. Yes he bent one of the lower link supports. But when he hit the stump his lift arms were actually forced down against hydraulic pressure, because his arms were not all the way down and the mechanical pressure on the upper lift arms and shaft actually shoved the piston rod right through the piston on his top deck. This was on a Kubota L4610. Unbelievably he didn't damage the top deck or cylinder too bad, so we honed it out and replaced the rod and piston and other seals necessary due to disassembly and his parts expense was only $70, of course the labor was over $500, but he got off lucky, if he had damaged the top deck or cylinder housing it would have cost $500 by itself. So don't push with you three point arms. Only pull.

To20Chris · Jul 3, 2004

I think most damage to tractors is done by impact! I've run the box blade til the tractor wheels spun both forward and backwards, and the FEL too (forward only), and I've never felt the tractor was stressed at all. But then I'm a slow poke and try not to push my equipment.

OkieG · Jul 6, 2004

This past weekend, a professional landscaper tamed a neighbor's drainage ditch with his TC40D (loader and boxblade). He used his boxblade both directions, but he did the "real" business backing with the boxblade. That is, knocking off the sharp edges of the ditch. Worked well. His equipment is a year old. 3PH lift arms seem to be in good shape.

OkieG

_RaT_ · Jul 7, 2004

Your right. I don't slam my blade into known hazards like rocks or stumps. To say we are lucky as was mentioned is not true. Most tractors can handle boxblading in reverse. Severe impact in reverse can be more damaging because for one thing, the box has no escape like it does going forward. It cannot ride up on the sides of the box blade like you get going forward. If tractors were not meant to box blade in reverse then the manufactuers of box blades would have stopped fooling with a rear mounted blade years ago. I have yet to see a box blade with only a forward blade.

Ozarker · Jul 7, 2004

I believe that the rear blade on my box blade is there to move/spread loose materiel. Not to make cuts in undisturbed soil. The lower arms simply don't have the strength to do a lot of pushing. Particularly since they are at an angle to the direction of the push.

I recently tamed the drainage ditches along my drive but I broke up the ground with the scarfier teeth first and did all cutting while pulling the box blade.

_RaT_ · Jul 7, 2004

"I believe that the rear blade on my box blade is there to move/spread loose materiel. Not to make cuts in undisturbed soil. The lower arms simply don't have the strength to do a lot of pushing. "

I believe that your boxscraper was designed with no regards to what tractor it would be used on. Rather, it's purpose was not to fail regardless of what it was attached to within reason. In this case, your Yanmar may well not be able to take full advantage of the box scrapers ability.

If after examining your lower links and you feel they are simply not made to adequately handle reverse blading, then by all means, I would not do it. Our NH 2120 is a perfect example. The lower link arms are very poorly designed. They bend like noodles right where the hole for the lift arms attach. On the other hand, my Kubota L3830 is very stout and the issue of box blading in reverse is frankly, not an issue. The same applied to my L48 and my old Kubota L4850.

jinman · Jul 8, 2004

( I broke up the ground with the scarfier teeth first and did all cutting while pulling the box blade.
)

Ozarker, my guess is that you don't have top-n-tilt on your 3PH. You could make the argument that the tractor was not designed to have TnT, but many of us would argue that point with you, too.

I have TnT on my 3PH and a boxblade that is a joy to use by tilting the box and cutting in reverse. Moist soil will actually peel up and roll behind the blade as I make grading type cuts in reverse. Because my tractor has far less traction in reverse than forward, there is very little chance of overstressing the arms even if I get my cut too deep. The wheels spin until I lift the box enough to continue. I don't make running starts and slam into anything whether I'm going in reverse or going forward.

Recently, I had some hillsides I needed to cut a road thru. I'd cut in reverse, lift the box after I had a lot of material behind it, then pull forward with a full box to the area I wanted to put the dirt and spread it. I believe that's just one of many jobs the boxblade was designed to do.

As RaT mentioned though, if you feel your lift arms are too weak, by all means do not use your boxblade this way.

MicroPilot · Jul 8, 2004

I'll have to look at some other tractors, but on my Century 3035 I would think the weak part of the lower arms would be the pins where they attach to the tractor frame. The arms on this machine look VERY sturdy.

normde2001 · Jul 8, 2004

I'm totally with you, Ozarker. This ad leads me to believe the boxblade is intended to be pulled, and the rear blade is used for smoothing and leveling.

jinman · Jul 8, 2004

( ...I would think the weak part of the lower arms would be the pins where they attach to the tractor frame. )

When you think about it, at the attach points, there is no difference whether you are moving forward or reverse because the pins are essentially perpendicular to the force. If anything, the pins would have more strengh when being pushed on rather than pulled on. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif