Boy, but I hate poor engineering!

Darren · May 30, 2004

I talked to an engineer at Ford. I has just bought a Ford truck and wanted to know what the limiting factor was in figuring the GVW and the towing capacity. In short I wanted to know how they calculated the GVW of a truck. The guy, in drive-line engineering, didn't know but he said he would find out.

True to his word he called me back. I could sense the bewilderment when he told me the GVW was determined by marketing. It was as much a shock to him as it was to me. It turned out that marketing set the GVW initially and then components that would support the GVW were selected. There was no way to determine the weak link. That was almost twenty years ago.

For Detroit, marketing and accounting make most of the design decisions.

have_blue · May 30, 2004

HA! Maybe Marketing likes round figures like "6000 Pound Towing Capacity". Engineering would have specified "5994.375".

I doubt that's literally true anyway. I'm sure that marketing consulted with Engineering at some point.

nomad · May 30, 2004

People, engineering (in our era) is usually defined as "optimum designing using economy/cost restriction." That means "make the design with minimum cost".

The design part is related to technical things based on "theories" and "safety" which is a mixture of technology and socialogy/health.

The cost/economy part has been injected to engineering education in last decades to teach the engineering students how to minimize the costs. Go to an engineering faculty today - you will see they are giving a course of Economy101 to all engineering students. When they are juniors they are also given a course like "optimization" a field the technical calculations are bouned by the limits, economical criteria. Therefore, all these aren't new for the engineers at the factories - such things are taught at the faculties.

So, engineering today can be defined as theory applicators within the limits of economy. Theories are given to them engineers by people in the basic sciences such as physics, math, chemistry and biology. A practical engineer who is "experienced!?" in the manufacturing/design/etc, etc isn't more than a qualified worker with an industrial high school background.

preferajag · May 30, 2004

Sorry Gentlemen - but I think that some of you are missing the point! ( No offense!)

As a professional engingeer trained some 40 years ago I have at least a minimal right to air an opinon.

The reason for most of the confusion, is the fault of the educational system ( in the US and in many other countries) and the attitude of the media and public.

An engineer is NOT a guy who drives a train. He is not the guy who mends the TV.

The origin of the word "engineer" does not come from the word "engine" in terms of a machine. An engineer or originally ingeneur - derives from the word ingenuity - ie a person who has the capability to devise practical solutions to complex problems.

It is indeed very regrettable that in many cases the professional engineer gets the blame when a corporate product design committee decision selects a poor compromise between engineering excellence and 'market requirement'

Let's remember the many superb engineers who devised products we cannot live without - like the steam engine - the jet engine - televison and even the micro chip. Let us not confuse their superb competence with what is typically achieved by the less well trained - but very much needed - technicians with 2 year degrees, which some committee in achademia decided should have the title of engineer.

Engineering as a profession gets a bad rap as a result this nomenclature confusion. Many professional engineers have the expertise and competence to analyze needs and create products - and, by the way - its a very satisfying career.

Many corporation cut corners to attempt to maximize profit - and often shoot themselves in the foot as a result of their poor judgement - it's not always the engineer's fault!!!!!

Sorry did I sound like I was standing on a soap box /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

TWINKLE_TOES · May 30, 2004

Egon, my definition of an Engineer is someone that can do with a dollar what any body can do with ten.

Egon · May 31, 2004

No soap box Preferajag; just some very good comments.

Egon

have_blue · May 31, 2004

( Egon, my definition of an Engineer is someone that can do with a dollar what any body can do with ten. )

Hmmm... I'll have to lighten up on my wife. All this time she only wanted me to be an engineer! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slowzuki · May 31, 2004

To add some more confusion: I live in Canada where engineering is a protected term by law. I have a Bachelor of Applied Science in Mechanical Engineering, and I'm a registered engineer in training, but I need 4 years of experience that is reviewed before I can apply to be a professional engineer.

Many of my classmates took mech-eng so they could go on to get their masters in business and be managers.

At the start of the program you can tell who is going to be what, many people have no interest in practical solutions, or even a concept of practical. We had opportunity for hands on work, we did turning, milling, welding, casting, heat treating, plastics work, injection molding etc etc but some students only wanted the math or business part.

I feel some of these people give engineers a bad name but they serve a purpose too. Not everyone wants to study heat flow in dies to find out why the shrinkage rate it too high in one area of a part, not everyone wants to sit in the windtunnel doing calculus on vortices off tips of turbine blades in engines to get 1% more efficiency. Not everyone wants to manage a room of young engineers with cost pressures loaded on their shoulders.

These are all the other types of engineer. So as I learned in school, some engineering graduates still don't know how a car motor runs, and some just don't care /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nomad · Jun 1, 2004

( some engineering graduates still don't know how a car motor runs)

Then, how did they pass their thermodynamic 201 exam? By bribing

? or how are they passing tests of internal combustion engine course taught at senior year? Not knowing how basic engine/motor runs is a thing, not knowning detailed components of a, say, new model mercedes is another thing. Engineers are people understanding principles of science (phys.&math.) applications. They aren't dealers who have to know all components of engines. Dealers know even many many OEM#, but they do not understand the technology principles.