breaker and fuse required for welder

[TMGT]

Also if it's a dedicated outlet for the welder the NEC will allow you to up-rate the wire in many cases, so a 50a breaker can be used with 8g nm or 10g thhn etc.
The manufacturer should say what's allowed.

 

[Cord]

50A is fine.

But the whole issue about neutrals...There are no neutrals in a typical welder circuit. There are only two hots and a ground.

This is true. Even my late model Lincoln with a 110v outlet doesn't have a neutral. Factory bonds the neutral to the chassis. There must be an exception in the standard for non-residential equipment.

 

[TMGT]

This is true. Even my late model Lincoln with a 110v outlet doesn't have a neutral. Factory bonds the neutral to the chassis. There must be an exception in the standard for non-residential equipment.

Every 110v welder I've ever seen has a neutral, if it has 2 prongs on the plug it has a neutral.
Actually I've never seen a 110v welder without a ground (3rd prong).

 

[CobyRupert]

Your comment about neutrals isn't correct. The welder doesn't use a neutral for 240v operation and no U.S.A. code requires a neutral for 240v appliances or outlets that don't specifically require one.
As an example 6/2 copper NM wire is rated for 50a and has two conductors and a ground....no neutral. With U.S.A. split phase electrical the 渡eutral for 1/2 the phase is the other 1/2 phase.

The photo in the manual appears to show a 50a plug for this welder.

If we are correcting terminology; your reference to split phase is in error. It is either 120V single phase or 240V single phase. 240V single phase has two conductors that measure 240V across the two wires and each measures 120V to ground. There is no specific designation of the phases in a single phase system. Split phase is a specific term for a type of motor winding type.

Ron

Split phase can also refer to the common 120/240V single phase system in your house, where the utility's transformer has a conductor connected to the center of the 240V single phase transformer winding so that the 240V single phase is "split" into (2)-120V single phase circuits and brought to your house. Hopefully (but not necessary) the center is grounded to earth (and becomes a 0 volt reference), thus this circuit conductor is called "neutral". The two hot conductors coming off the end of the winding (and brought to your panel) are still 240V single phase in reference to each other, but each is 120V in reference to the the center of the split winding (aka the "neutral" conductor) and 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

 

[RNeumann]

If we are correcting terminology; your reference to split phase is in error. It is either 120V single phase or 240V single phase. 240V single phase has two conductors that measure 240V across the two wires and each measures 120V to ground. There is no specific designation of the phases in a single phase system. Split phase is a specific term for a type of motor winding type.

Ron

I’ll go with wiki on this one-

Split-phase electric power - Wikipedia

It should also be noted that single phase 240v is a totally different animal. That is used by many countries outside the USA.

 

[Cord]

Every 110v welder I've ever seen has a neutral, if it has 2 prongs on the plug it has a neutral.
Actually I've never seen a 110v welder without a ground (3rd prong).

It's a 220v 2p machine with a 110v duplex outlet. No neutral. Just a ground. The neutral is bonded inside of the machine. Stove and dryers used to be wired like this until about 15 years ago.

 

[FTG-05]

From the 200 brochure, lower left, first page:

INPUT: 120V: 43A/26A; 240V: 40A/24A 50/60 Hz 1 phase

Also there is this on the "Tech Specs" page:

Max Inrush ( I1MAX ) Amps:

@110V: 42.8A
@220V: 40A


Hence, I would a 40-50 amp CB and call it good. Wire size is appropriate to the CB installed.


Good luck.

 

[TMGT]

It's a 220v 2p machine with a 110v duplex outlet. No neutral. Just a ground. The neutral is bonded inside of the machine. Stove and dryers used to be wired like this until about 15 years ago.

What machine do you have? I thought you were refering to a 110v input welder, is this a 220v welder with 110v receptical built in or a multi voltage machine?

 

[sandfs]

The lincolns that have/had the auxillary 120 volt receptacle, the 120 is derived internally off the transformer. That eliminates the need for supplying a neutral from the breaker panel and the whole neutral/ground issue. Conventional 240 volt, 3 wire cord, L1-L2-Grd..

 

[LD1]

IF it were me, I'd wire a 50a plug.....and wire it to code as a 50a plug with 6ga wire with neutral AND ground.

Sure, welders can get by without without neutral.....and can go smaller on the wire. That is all true. But that means circuit is dedicated to welder and welder ONLY.

Would hate to have a 50a plug.....that you cannot do anything else with other than power a welder.....when a few bucks more can make that 50a plug power anything.

Maybe in the future you get some equipment and want to run a phase converter. (I did this. Phase converter is running off one of the 50a welder plugs. Sure glad I didnt pull that with 8 or 10ga wire)

Maybe in the future you want to put a stove down there in the shop to do some canning on? Or a larger air compressor? OR (pick any other 240v item you think you might want to run)