Broke tilt cylinder rod and bent the other

[dickfoster]

Back dragging with cylinders fully extended. It is a not a good idea and you must be careful.

Yeah as I recall my manual says 15 degrees bucket tilt max when back dragging so I always try to pay attention to that. A bulldozer it ain't.

 

[dickfoster]

I was trying to get a stump that I had freed with the backhoe out of the hole with the grapple. With the grapple fully tilted I placed it over the top of the stump. The loader was not powerful enough to lift it or tilt it out of the hole (very large stump) so I moved the tractor backwards hoping to drag it out. Doing so caused extreme leverage.

I should have known better.

Oh well, live and learn as they say, experience can be a hard task master at times. If you don't screw something up once in a while, you're not trying.

 

[dickfoster]

A month ago, I tried to dig out a stump,, it was extremely tap rooted.
I had a trench four feet deep all the way around it.
My 10,000 pound 4WD tractor could not shake it.

I hooked my woodsplitter to the stump, and the other end of the splitter to a nearby tree,,
the anchor tree was 24", it was not gonna move,, the stump had to come out.
I figured the splitter was exerting at least 4 times as much force as my tractor could,,, maybe even more,

Well,, working the woodsplitter cylinder back and forth about 30-40 times, the stump finally started to move.
I would exert a pull on the stump, then let it set for a couple minutes.
I think the delay with the tension on it caused the soil to compress slightly each time.

I ended up using the splitter until the stump was completely free.
I left the stump set and dry for about 2 weeks, then I used the backhoe to remove much of the dirt.

THEN the tractor would move it.

OH, by the way, what are the dimensions of the cylinders??
I have a bunch of new ones,, something might be close enough,,,

I'd be interested in exactly how you hooked up a wood splitter to pull a stump. I have a 31 ton splitter but can't feature how to use it to pull a stump. Stumps I've got lots of, trees I've got plenty enough of and the splitter too, it's the knowledge that I lack.

 

[sixdogs]

Is this an unusual circumstance? I mean, how come I never bent or broke one. I do all sorts of ill-advised things and never bent or broke a cylinder. I didn't know I could and I've done what the OP did. And back drag no more than 15 degrees? I don't think I've ever done that little of an angle. Did the OP have a quality control issue?

Could someone explain things I should NOT do so I don't follow the leader?

 

[dickfoster]

Is this an unusual circumstance? I mean, how come I never bent or broke one. I do all sorts of ill-advised things and never bent or broke a cylinder. I didn't know I could and I've done what the OP did. And back drag no more than 15 degrees? I don't think I've ever done that little of an angle. Did the OP have a quality control issue?

Could someone explain things I should NOT do so I don't follow the leader?

I didn't write the book either Mahindra or KMW did. I know it says 15 degrees somewhere. There is little information in it but what little there is, I've read.

 

[burzynsr]

The manual for my loader on my 4025 (Buehler manufactured) states not to back drag. You can probably get away with it say like on a large back hoe (rented) or a large size tractor (due to larger cylinders) of any brand, but the smaller tractors are not as heavy duty and have enough power to bend or break them.

 

[CCWKen]

I back drag with my little Kenbota all the time. But I don't back drag with the bucket bottom vertical. I use the back of the bucket or with bucket edge only down a little. Mostly for smoothing dirt or gravel--Not trying to move a pile.

But...I have bent a lift cylinder on it. :ashamed: That was caused by too much weight at near full extension. I was lifting a 2-post auto lift column onto a high sided trailer. I lucked out as it started bending just as I was letting it down. I was able drop it and unload the cylinders. Otherwise, that thing might still be hanging off the loader.

 

[4570Man]

Here's a buddy's tractor. He was doing the same time you did.

 

[k0ua]

I have back dragged with all my tractors for over 20 years, and I mean I do it a LOT. I have never bent or torn one up. BUT you need to be in float mode and don't have a whole lot of angle on the bucket even then. I sometimes paw gravel down my gravel pile, but you have to be careful.

 

[DavesTractor]

This sort of failure comes up on TBN occasionally, and it sounds like many of you are savvy on why it happens. Someone though will always say something about how it should have never happened because the tractor should protect itself with a pressure relief valve (PRV). As already mentioned I think, when the spool valve is centered, the oil in the cylinders can't "see" the PRV as it is on the other side of the closed spool valve. No problem if it is just holding a load, but if you then put a bunch of force on these cylinders by pushing them or pulling them (especially when extended), something has to give. The tractor will need to lose traction, the engine will have to stall, the clutch will have to slip, the stump will have to come out (or whatever the task)...and if none of the aforementioned happen - then a hose has to burst or a cylinder has to fail. Something must give, and generally it is the object that gives and you just go on to the next task...unaware that you were really close to failure!

In the case of a fully extended cylinder when back dragging against something really tough, there is very little rod in the cylinder and they are easy enough to bend. I've done it on a big old Massey I borrowed from my dad. And I've done it on an excavator by hooking under a root, crowding the bucket all the way and then bouncing the machine with the main boom cylinder. Like, what was I thinking? Seemed like a good idea at the time....that was costly.

So we can break these things, they are not protected against all of our maneuvers. I really appreciate the original poster here in that he realizes that he pushed the envelope and does not now expect someone else to have to foot the bill. Dealers like customers like you. You could ask your dealer to give you a little discount though, he might just do it as he hates to see this happen.