Broken Starter Key extraction

[cgraham]

I hope someone here can help me with extraction of a broken key. I'm told the same key commonly operates a lot of different tractors, so info about other brands may be helpful.

My knee often catches the key of my LB1914., causing it to bend or turn to off position (the tractor keeps running), or fall out (I added a string and a ring that goes over the throttle lever to prevent loss).

I have straightened it many times and it finally broke off, just far enough back in the lock I can't grab ahold of it. (Lesson learned, replace compromised key before it breaks.)

I have read up _extensively_ on extracting broken keys, but the Kioti key fits so snugly that I have not been able to slide any improvised extraction tool (or even a very fine wire) in alongside it (could be due to lack of experience or of the right tool).

The only other realistic approach is to Superglue the key head to the key stub and pull it out, but the danger is of glue fouling the lock completely, so that will be a last resort when the only remaining alternative is removing/replacing the ignition lock. Can the key blade be removed once the switch is taken out?

The tractor starter solenoid can be jump started successfully, and the tractor runs fine, because a screwdriver will turn the starting switch to the position that activates the glow plugs (but seemingly not beyond - I can't remember if one has to push the key in to move on to the "Start position). However, the Owner's Manual darkly warns of damage to the electrical system if the tractor is run in this condition: I don't know WHAT can be damaged when the charging system and electrical accessories are not operational, and I have run many hours with the key unknowingly in the "Off" position.

I'd like to know a little more about how the lock works. Fortunately the lock is in the 'Off' position, so the key should pull right out if I can I get a grip, unless there is some mechanism to prevent the key falling out. Does this lock have any tumblers that are depressed when the key is inserted? The lock has a pair of black plastic lips on either side of the key slot - these can be depressed slightly against a spring - not sure what they do.

Anyway, the tractor has been idling all night and I need to go and get some urgent work done. I'll check back later, especially if I can add more details

Any suggestions/comments much appreciated!

C

 

[Dave M7040]

A blade from a coping saw (hand jig saw) which you grind down to reduce the overall height and with the teeth facing backwards can often be slid into the cylinder enough to have one of the teeth on the blade hook the key.
The secret is the back sloping blade tooth getting under the key. Hope my description makes sense.
Dave M7040

 

[JasG]

I have removed key stubs from industrial machinery before with a pick set (not a lock pick set). You should be able to buy a set or 4 at a hardware store. Usually you will get a 90 degree, a straight, a hook and 1 about 1/2 way between the 90 and straight. I use 2 one on the top and one on the bottom to pinch and pull the stub out. These picks go to a very fine point so you should be able to get it to dig into the top and bottom edge.

 

[kneedeep]

Replace the switch?? :confused3:

 

[DT86]

I agree with JasG on the pick set. You might think about removing the switch and putting it gently in a vice to be able to see what you are doing better.

 

[jaotguy]

try 2 large sewing needles as pry picks... one top and one bottom ....

 

[deerseeker001]

i used the pick set for removing broken key from door lock on my shop.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Since something is obviously wrong with your ignition switch, tractor shouldn't run in the off position unless you have a throttle shut off for the fuel rather than a solenoid shut off. Regardless, switches are rather cheap and can be had at an automotive parts house for about $15. You might also consider doing like I did on my Yanmar where I kept hitting it with my knee. I relocated it to the side of the steering housing rather than in front. In my case, there was a light switch on the side so I just swapped the switches. If I bumped the light switch the most that would happen was the lights would go off, but since I rarely worked at night, it wasn't an issue.

 

[cgraham]

Thank you all for the various suggestions. The tractor does employ a fuel shutoff, so it is working normally. Good idea to relocate the switch, Gary, if I have to remove it: I'll look into the possibilities. Certainly if the lock is removed that is the time to try again to find a way of removing the key (and check all the contacts while I have the opportunity, if the switch is not sealed).

I don't have good picks - time to get some, but like the coping saw blade, there is just too little clearance to get anything into the lock beside or above/below the key. I have seen many suggestions along these lines, but there just does not seem to be room for that approach.

The key looks like a very primitive design. It does have a groove or keyway along one side, but otherwise all it has are four identical rounded-off teeth, instead of a more complex pattern most keys have. This makes me think there are probably no tumblers in the lock (not sure if that is relevant as the key is in the OFF position).

Well, I sprayed silicone into the lock, so perhaps that loosened things up a bit (not that the key was hard to pull out). Time for another try.

If I am successful, I'll post my solution for the benefit of others.

C

 

[TripleR]

Moving the key is an excellent idea. We have a Massey Ferguson with a really thin key like that and have broken it a couple of times my brother used dental picks to remove it, now we just throw the key away and use a new one if it gets bent.

 

[/pine]

Wally-World caries Stanley pick sets for about $5...typical mechanics set...

Jewelers picks or dental picks would work too...

 

[kco]

I had a similar problem on my DK35 so I ground off the turn signal switch and key as shown in this thread:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/206080-my-dk35-modifications.html

I would also like to make some sort of guard for the 4WD switch which I have somehow managed to mistakenly switch off with my knee. Although I'm average height I like the seat in the most-forward position making the switches more prone to accidental hits with the knee. Inavertent 4WD operation is a safety hazard when travelling down a steep hill with a loaded bucket (since the back wheel brakes are ineffective for braking).

 

[cgraham]

I finally succeeded in removing the broken starting key on my LB1914. :key:

I was unable to pick it out with any of a variety of tools. So I had to remove the switch.

This requires removal of the throttle lever, the instrument panel, the front of the panel with the gas shut-off lever set in it, and loosening and pulling forward the large lower panel in which the Starter switch is mounted. While grasping the back of the switch, the locking ring on the front of the panel is easily removed with suitable pliers.

There is a small hole in the back of the switch housing, and the key fragment was easily pushed out through it with a wire! :cool2:

My understanding is there is only one key type for all LB1914s. Steal one, and you can steal them all

I checked the spare key, and it turns the lock very easily: one does not need such a large key head, so I an going to experiment with reducing its size so my knee does not impact it so easily. I also plan to screw a piece of rigid material to the panel to help guard the key from my knee.

I ordered another set of two keys from Little Tractor for $10. With an earlier order, Little Tractor sent me a pair of courtesy Kioti orange key fobs to make the black keys easier to find: very useful, especially for a downsized key, so I asked for another, which they are kindly including with my order.

I attach a red string to the key and the other end to a large key ring that only fits over the throttle lever BEFORE the key is inserted. This prevents key loss on the odd occasion when the key has been knocked out of the lock (one does not notice because diesels keep running). It also serves as a flag that reminds me to remove the key when I am done.

I am also going to follow a suggestion I found in another thread: take an orange Gatorade cap to make a replacement for the OEM starter switch weather cap - its keeper breaks off in a year or two and is soon lost (it's important to keep the rain out). This mod uses some wire tightly wound around the cap to make a snug fit. I plan to go one better and add a rot-proof keeper screwed to the panel.

While the panels are off it's a good time to examine the Gas Cut-off control: it can become difficult to operate because of accumulated dust and dirt at each end of its cable: in fact mine was completely jammed and not working. Working the cable vigorously a couple of inches back and forth got rid of the dry dirt in the ends, and then I added a little silicone spray to each end: now it feels frictionless.

Removal of the lower panel also provides an opportunity to lubricate a hidden pivot on the foot throttle linkage which can (and was contributing to preventing the throttle linkage not returning all the way to idle. I may also add an extra spring attached to the throttle and anchored back somewhere near the firewall.

So I got three birds with one stone! :dance1:

Thank you all for the suggestions and encouragement :drink:

Do you know why they say mount and dismount the tractor only from the left? It has nothing to do with horses, unless perhaps you ride :cowboy::horse: The real reason is that it keeps you from accidentally stepping on the foot throttle, possibly with startling results. (You know, we really need some fun tractor "smilies" here!)

Thanks for your advice and suggestions,

C

 

[cgraham]

My eventual solution was to cut down the size of the key head, entirely removing the upper half.

Since then I have not had the knee-turns-the-key problem, and have not considered any more radical fixes necessary. I still use the safety ring: for one thing it lets me remove the key and just let it hang, and all my key rings have an orange or red fob to make them easier to find if dropped. (Little Tractor did kindly send me fobs as requested, but unfortunately they were not colored this time; I suppose I could get some paint).

 

[jaotguy]

congrats ....

 

[Dexy]

Hi there!

As for broken starter key extraction I'd recommend emergency locksmith Vaughan in Ontario.

Broken car key is even more unpleasant thing. When it happens, car owners imagine how they extract the key, repaint their car, pay for newly placed locks and keys or even door repair. Picking out is the worst thing you can do.

 

[joecdeere]

I've knee broke several on my Ford Backhoe, I now clamp them in a vice and bend the head over almost 90 degrees. Some keys won't bend, they break, but the ones I have will.