building a arch gate

[Regneufeld]

I am going to build a gate like this. Being the top arch flat iron is going to be a different length the one below it, I am trying to picture how to simply drill all the holes first then slide the round bar down through them and weld it up. The top holes would be on an angle but maybe just drilling them straight and reaming them after might be ok. Aligning those holes is much easier on paper then in real life I'm thinking

 

[NC tractor driver]

I would think the way to do this is to build the gate first without the arch, then with the arches bent lay them out on the gate and mark where the holes go. You might be able to jig up your drill to get the correct angle at the same time.

Looks nice and good luck.

 

[framer]

Bend the arch out thin wood lay out pickets on floor mark holes. Lay on metal
and transfer holes to flat metal. Drill holes 1/8 to1/4 bigger that would compensate for arch angle.

 

[GT2]

I would think the way to do this is to build the gate first without the arch, then with the arches bent lay them out on the gate and mark where the holes go. You might be able to jig up your drill to get the correct angle at the same time.

Looks nice and good luck.

I agree, you can drill the holes a little bigger and weld in the gap.

 

[dfkrug]

Being the top arch flat iron is going to be a different length the one below it, I am trying to picture how to simply drill all the holes first then slide the round bar down through them and weld it up.

Why drill any holes at all? That's the hardest part of the project, it seems
to me.

Each vertical round bar can be cut into 3 segments, aligned, then welded.
Tacked first, each section would be easy to redo.

 

[GT2]

Each vertical round bar can be cut into 3 segments, aligned, then welded.
Tacked first, each section would be easy to redo.

IMHO thats easer said than done. From my experience I think it will be easer and better looking to keep the uprights in one piece.

 

[SandburRanch]

I wouldn't drill holes in the arch.

Drill holes in the top rail and tack the stiles and rails square. Put the rods through the top rail holes and tack weld to the bottom rail. Place the edge of the arch on the rods positioned correctly for the long left/right stile and the right/left stile/post. Mark the rods using the arch as the guide and cut the rods. But weld the rods to the bottom of the arch.

 

[tommu56]

I don't know what you drew it in.
I usually use cadd and measure with the program.
I would lay it out on paper and figure a right triangle and calculate the hypotenuse drill holes on that center but drill them oversize and align them and fill with weld.

The dimension you want looks like a cord of a circle.
Google that and see if you cand find a formula.


tom

 

[Regneufeld]

IMHO thats easer said than done. From my experience I think it will be easer and better looking to keep the uprights in one piece.

Yes that is what I thought. keeping those rods in piece I believe is key to a nice look. get some of the 3 segments out of alignment and it will look really bad.

Good ideas and being that I work with wood as a living making a template out of light plywood should have been something I thought of. My thought was trying to find a formula to use measurements but that would have to assume I am going to make the perfect arch.
So with that I think it will be get it close and make bigger holes then fix the mess with weld and grinder :laughing:

One more week to work then I get to take the time to get this project done.

 

[dfkrug]

IMHO thats easer said than done. From my experience I think it will be easer and better looking to keep the uprights in one piece.

If you don't trust your eye, then you make a jig and clamp it. Most things
are easier said than done, like drilling large holes in thick steel. Jigs are
easily made of wood, then tossed after you are done. The jig would be
placed and clamped for each vertical.

 

[Regneufeld]

I know this is not a super challenge type project but it is interesting when you ask the masses how you can get some new ways to look at how to achieve something.
A jig or a simple channel to lay the rods in and tack might be something to consider.

 

[NSBound]

IMHO thats easer said than done. From my experience I think it will be easer and better looking to keep the uprights in one piece.

I'm with GT 2 on this one. I'd be drilling the holes larger and fill the gaps on the bottom side with weld. If you get just one vertical piece half a degree out of plumb it'll look like a bad job.

 

[DJ54]

You didn't mention what your framework is to be made of, but I'm assuming some sort of square tubing..? I agree with NC Tractor Driver about going ahead, and building the frame work, but with an added twist.

You mentioned sliding the rods in from the top. I'm thinking..., come in from the bottom. Drill completely through your bottom rail. Here again, I'm assuming you will drill your top rail at the same time, so as they will line up.

(I built grills for my stall fronts, and doors. There are 4 rails, and 3/8" rods, spaced 2" O.C., and some are up to 8' long. I tacked them all together, and drilled all the holes at the same time, so as to line up.)

Tack your top arch in place, so you can remove to drill. Everything is in place, and you can get a rough measure to cut your rods.

Slide the rods up through the bottom, until it just touches the arch. You can then mark where each rod goes. Keep in mind you will get some deflection if laying horizontally. So clamping something to it for a good straight edge is advisable. Or small blocks/strips of something to carry them to keep them straight. I used a piece of 3/4" X 1/8" angle iron, and Vise-Grips to old in place.

While also in this position, you can get the angle the holes need to be drilled at. I'm thinking being it's in a radius, it may be different than a straight line angle. Maybe just undersize the hole, then finish with the proper size at the proper angle, with the pilot hole for something to get started into. Too bad they don't make Forstner bits for steel..., LOL...

Re-tack the arch, and slide the rods up through. You may still need to ream the holes to get them through, but you ought to be pretty close.

If you cut them over length, as to what ever the bottom rail will allow, it will also allow you to slide back and forth to get the top to match across the arch. A combination square is a good friend in the shop for things like this.

Although you will have all those holes in the bottom of the bottom rail to stitch shut, it seems it would be the easiest way to get your rods in line...

Just some food for thought. Sorry to be so long in the explaination... I have a tendency to look at things differently..., and takes a while to 'splain...

 

[GT2]

Making jigs and such do come in handy, but in this case you could probably drill the holes just as fast with better finish. When I say finish I mean that if you drill the top holes a little over size, a good mig welder can weld " kind of down in the gap", producing a less bulky weld. I feel this gives the gate a less blob weld look that surface welds do, tho not always, if you get a nice small bead.
DJ54's idea of inserting from the bottom has merit, although be carfull to fully weld/ seal the bottom connection otherwise the bottom rail could retain water and rust out?

 

[smiley]

I think framer is on the right track. Seeing that I flunked algebra the first year with 63 and passed with 65 the second, I'd have do it the farmer way.
With a chalk line lay out on the floor a large square, the full width and height of the gate. Be sure it's dead square, then strike in the bar center lines. screw down some 2 x4's or whatever's available on the sides jig style to hold things in place and bend your arch into the proper position, then mark the intersecting chalk line points on the arch. That will give you the centers to drill your holes for the arch. You probably could do it in steel but I'd do it in plywood first to be sure. The straight rails should be a cinch, just get the centers right and drill your holes. Ream the arch with it bent in place, Assemble the whole thing, check for square, make any necessary adjustments etc, tack it and weld it.

 

[EddieWalker]

What am I missing here?

Build all of it except the arch. Then put a dap of caulking at the tops of the rods you want to go throug the arch and place the arch where you want it so the caulking transfers onto the arch.

Now you know where to drill your holes.

Eddie

 

[Willl]

Did I miss how wide/tall finished size is ?

Myself, I'd lay the whole thing out, full size, on large cardboard, then lay out my steel.

A method that hasn't failed me yet.

 

[Regneufeld]

pretty much 60" X 60" roughly to the top of the arch and sides. a bit narrower as I need room for the hinges

 

[Carl_NH]

These are all great ideas and to build this out of wood first as a template to weld to is a good idea. M

My thoughts are on a piece of 3/4 plywood, make a 40x 70" rectangle, attach 1x2 firring strips both sides where the main channel iron sits then cut the arch with the remaining plywood and attach to the plywood.

As others have suggested drill the bottom and middle rails thru then put the rails in the template then insert the rods with the top curved rail (pre bent) and sandwiched in the plywood curve.

Assuming a 2x2 frame this should put the middle of the upright rods about the center of the rails and top curved rail, then as Eddie walker suggests a dab of caulk will mark the drilling location.

Once drilled then the top rail/rod can be tacked while held in place by the wood jig. I would remove from the wood and place on a flat surface after tacking to do the final welds as others mentioned so to minimize warp.

One wood template will suffice both gates since they are mirror image, and when you are done can you send this to me? It seems someone here wants some "garden gates" too as she was peering over my shoulder just now " and said are you on that Tractor site AGAIN" and I want those!

Oc course that means I need a welder.. perfect timing!

 

[oldhippy]

I have built several gates like you are going to build. If I did this gate I would build a welding jig from a 4x8 pc plywood. Then cut the cross pcs and bend the arch. You might consider a dog jump that is another pcs about 6" from bottom of gate. Then lay all the pcs at the bottom of the plywood and use a framing square to mark where the rods are going. Then drill. Put one half of the gate on jig clamp down and weld. I use u channel when I build my gates this way you can weld it from the bottom and not see any welds. Code in most places is to have no space on the gate greater than 6" to keep a small child from getting his or her head stuck in gate. That is a pretty good rule I think. Do not take the gate from table until the welding has cooled, I have to go in the house a drink a soda as I will pull clamps to soon and the gate warp, They make some little ball bearing gate hinges that just weld on. You can find them on ebay and at local wrought iron places. Last but not least is to put a small brace at the bottom of each outside corner that reaches from the edge to under the first rod. There is a fancy french name for this brace can't remember it now. If you don't put this in the gate will sag at the point where the cross pcs attach to outer frame. One last thing if you weld with a stick welder not a mig then a lot of you welds will break when you are handling the gate to install but will still go up and look good. Hope the helps and am looking forward to seeing the finished gate. big dan