Building a new house - need advice

   / Building a new house - need advice #1  

Torrak

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
25
Location
Washington State
Tractor
Kubota BX24
Hi all,

My wife and I have decided to build a new house on the back half of our property.

While I would like to use a general contractor, she would like me to act as the GC and subcontract all the labor to save some money.

My question is, is this feasible for someone who has never built or had a house built before? If it is truly money saving, does anyone have any tips, advice, etc? I do have all summer off as I am a teacher so I am able to be onsite every day, so time is not a problem, it is more of an experience/knowledge problem.

Thanks in advance,

Joe
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #2  
I will be doing the same thing in the spring. I have several friends who were their own contractor and saved thousands. You just have to be organized and have all the subs lined up and not be afraid to tell them how you want things done. If you are handy you can also do a lot of the work yourself. I would recommend you go to your local library and check out a book called "Be Your Own House Contractor". The author is Carl Heldmann. Pretty basic book, but I thought it provided a lot of good information. Good luck.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #3  
It depends on your pain threshold. The short answer to your question, is yes, its possible. I've done it twice, although I did more than GC, I did a significant portion of the work myself, both times. I grew up pounding nails with my father, so I had some relevant experience. However, it can be an incredibly frustrating thing to do.

The potential problems are really two-fold. First, you describe yourself as inexperienced. Without experience, it can sometimes be difficult to know which sub is responsible for what, and to accurately specify exactly what you want done. You then need to have the ability to look at what has been done and accurately assess if it was done right, and to the correct spec. Order of things to be done can also be an issue for some.

Second major issue is your place on the subs' pecking order. You WILL be at the bottom. If a tradesman (plumber, electrician, drywaller, etc) has a relationship with a GC, he will try to keep the GC happy first. That makes you low priority, and he'll show up not when he said he would, but rather when he has time between and around work he does for GC's that steadily feed his business.

What this means is, for example, the plumber says he will be here next week. OK, then I'll get the electrician here the week after so he can wire the house and the boiler, the well pump, etc, at the same time. The week after that, I'll get the drywaller here. So you schedule. Guess what, the plumber didn't show until a week after he said he would. Now you need to push the electrician and the drywaller. Well, the electrician can't do it the following week, already committed. Now I have to push the drywaller back further ("What do you mean you have a big job and if you can't do it in three weeks, then I'll have to wait 6 or 7??"). Oh ya, I better call the painter, because now I won't be ready for him either. I wonder when the plumber is coming back to set the fixtures? Kind of a crude example, but you get the picture.

Don't forget that since you aren't a regular customer, you probably aren't getting the most competitive price either, although bidding will help a little. Now try to get bids when you're not a GC and really don't understand what you are asking for and want. You'll be shocked by the fact that most won't even return your call asking for a bid.

Like I said, you can do it, plenty have. But, show me someone who thinks it's easy to build a house, and I'll show you someone who's either never done it or hired a GC.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #4  
I thought seriously about contracting my own house. I have the knowledge and contacts to make it work, but in the end I went with a well established general contractor. My calculated savings just didn't justify the extra hassle of doing it myself, especially condsidering the buying power of our contractor. Our house is about 3 weeks from completion, and I haven't regretted my decision. Just make sure you choose a reputable contractor with some hard assets beside a pickup truck and a few tools.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #5  
No one wants to hear this but when we decided to build I went with a GC that had general liability and workers compensation. Being in the insurance business, I have seen the worse case scenario's arise where workers get hurt and if it is bad enough, the homeowner gets stuck with medical bills and possible disability for a man hurt bad enough to not be able to work for a long time or the rest of his life. Yeah you can save money by being the GC but..........there are so many variables as listed above in addition to the one I just mentioned.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #6  
Torrak said:
Hi all,

My wife and I have decided to build a new house on the back half of our property.

While I would like to use a general contractor, she would like me to act as the GC and subcontract all the labor to save some money.

My question is, is this feasible for someone who has never built or had a house built before? If it is truly money saving, does anyone have any tips, advice, etc? I do have all summer off as I am a teacher so I am able to be onsite every day, so time is not a problem, it is more of an experience/knowledge problem.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

I was in your situation 2 years ago. Thought being my own GC would save a bundle. And since I'm retired I could devote full time to the project.

After reading a bunch of stuff about doing the GC work myself, I began to have second thoughts. Without a contractor's license, I could not get the best prices on material and could not get a break on CA sales tax. Also there's the problem of working with subs. You're the new kid on the block and so are at or near the end of the line when it comes to getting work done on your jobsite per your schedule.

Fortunately, I found a manufactured home from Golden Pacific with nearly the same design and floorspace as the one that I planned to stick-build myself. GP worked with me on a few design changes and I signed the contract. Going this route I had the costs potted so there would be no unpleasant surprises during construction/installation.

Figure I saved at least 9 months going with the manufactured home and avoided a lot of anxiety and frustration. And the manufactured home cost about $78 per sf installed (including a poured concrete permanent foundation). I doubt that I could have done much better being my own GC and probably would have done considerably worse considering my inexperience.

My neighbor, who is in the construction business, had his new home stick built the same time as mine was being built in the factory and installed on my jobsite. He was too busy to be his own GC so he hired that job out. Even with his contacts in the industry, he had a lot of trouble getting subs to show up on his jobsite when scheduled. Took him nearly a year to get his 2500 sf home built.

My advice--forget about the self-GC approach unless you're really masochistic.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #7  
Torrak said:
Hi all,

My wife and I have decided to build a new house on the back half of our property.

While I would like to use a general contractor, she would like me to act as the GC and subcontract all the labor to save some money.

My question is, is this feasible for someone who has never built or had a house built before? If it is truly money saving, does anyone have any tips, advice, etc? I do have all summer off as I am a teacher so I am able to be onsite every day, so time is not a problem, it is more of an experience/knowledge problem.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

As others have said, it depends on your pain threshold. The poster that said you will be at the bottom of the priority list is correct. You will also be the referee when the inevitable error occurs and the plumber or whoever says the electrician caused him extra work, the electrician of course denys it and says the plumber should have known. You will also be the chief interpreter of the plans, when the drawing doesn't quite match the physical situation you have.

We moved into our new house this spring and we elected to go the custom manufactured house route. Our house is a two story with a walk out basement and in no way has that modular look. I retired two years ago after 33 years in the engineering and construction business, and decided the remainder of my life was/is too short to put up with the hassle of being a GC. We purchased a used mobile home and lived on the property while the house was being built. It was aggravating enough being on the job site every day without being the GC. Going the modular route saved us a ton of money, and me a ton of extra aggravation, and I am happy reasonably happy with the quality. I guess I should add that some significant portions of the work, like finishing the basement and building the wrap around porches I kept out of the builders' scope for me to do myself. For this work, I will do most of the work, hiring someone for specific tasks - like roofing the back porch which will be a good 25 feet above grade.

Having said all that, you can do it - it ain't rocket science. But if you have a low tolerance for schedule delay and conflict management, you should think twice or three times before proceeding.

Barry
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #8  
I'm a general contractor, and I've built a few homes, but mostly i do remodels. I've found I can make good money comeing in to finish off jobs, or parts of a job that the sub started and never finished, or when the homeowner gets so desperate for somebody to show up, they'll hire me. A guy who does the same thing over and over again, day in and day out is gonna be able to do it faster and cheaper than I can. Especially sheetrock. My appeal is that I'll show up and get it done. It justs costs more.

Another thing I've seen more than once was realy shoddy work. When the house it all going to gether, the homeowner rarely knows what to look at. They are usually ovewhelmed by what's next and paying bills. I've been told it's the most stressfull thing you can do to your marriage.

On one job I was called in to seal the windows. Their framer had put them all in, but there was some gaps. Some gaps were bigger than others, and the half round windows were in sqaure openings!!! When I got there, I realized that the crew they had in there had never framed anything before. They even forgot to nail in all the studs!!!

The homeowner spent thousands for the work that had been done, plus the price of lumber that was cut and didn't fit. Than one day they didn't show up again. After a week of not being able to get in touch with these guys, they started calling around for somebody else to finish off there home. They called me after 6 or 7 other guys who had been there and gave them some conflicting advice. One said something, another said something else, and the home owner didn't know left from right anymore.

If you decide to do it, don't expect to save any money. Do it because it's something you want to do. The other posts are dead on in what you should expect in hiring subs. They make there living off of a few regular contractors and your just a bonus to them. Also realize that there is a huge number of guys in the trades that are drunks, addicts and gamblers. For whatever reason, the gamblers seem to be the most unreliable, but that's just my experience. hahaha

Eddie
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #9  
My modular home dealer was my gc. It was a smart move as the foundation contractor poured the foundation to low at one end. The modular home company made a wooden kneewall to fix mistake, but now the house had to be put on with crane, instead of being rolled on. The foundation contractor paid for the crane. It worked out as we needed less fill to cover foundation as kneewall has vinyl siding and windows. My neighbor was his own contractor and builder, he was on a construction loan. His bank got nervous because it took so long to build,he still picks away at it, and he started years ago. plowking
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #10  
I did it, it wasn't too bad (don't ask my wife), but be prepared. You got to know how to build a house. I would suggest you help someone build one first. Also, start with what you need, and add on later, but build it so you can add what you want to later.
I had a builder friend help me with lining up some of the subs.
I designed the house, and drew the plans, so I knew exactly how it was to be built.
I subbed out excavation, foundation, drywall, insulation (cheaper), ductwork, hvac, siding, slabwork, flooring, masonry, septic (sized for future addition).
I did the framing, electrical, plumbing, painting, finish carpentry, roofing, landscaping, and anything else.
My biggest problem was the timeline for the bank, I initially had 6 months, but they gave me a couple extensions and was in the house in about 9 months.
When I was done, I think it appraised at about $50K more than I had in it.

This was 9 yrs ago, since then I have added a 2 car garage with 3 more unfinished rooms overhead. I had initially sized my septic for more bedrooms, only cost me $50 more for a larger tank at the time.

with that said, a friend of mine, who is a general contractor just build his own house. He had a lot of trouble with subs and many delays. But his was a large house, many specialty items, etc..
 

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   / Building a new house - need advice #11  
Also realize that there is a huge number of guys in the trades that are drunks, addicts and gamblers. For whatever reason, the gamblers seem to be the most unreliable, but that's just my experience.

While I am not a general contractor, I did build my own house -- mostly with my own two hands. I never tusted sub, and I think there is good reason not too -- individuals get the dregs.

Eddie, you might enjoy this one.

I used to be a partner in owning an apartment complex, because I had experience, I was selected to manage our roofing contractor.

The crowning achievement was the day I had to go down & post bail for the team so I could get them back to work on our roof. They got drunk in some bar & got into a fight -- wasn't the first time for them either.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #12  
After doing two remodels ourselves- on complete to the studs, the other room by room while we lived there- we decided to have home built. I really enjoy building, but realized I did not have the time to particpate. I was overwhelmed at how time consuming it was, just keeping up with the GC! They did a great job of pacing us, asking for decisions with some time to think it thru, but not too much. Yes, this was a custom home, so there were more choices than others may have, and we did have a professionally drawn set of plans that we stuck with. One day, after I win the lottery and am retired I would love to build my own home. BUT, unless you are really well versed in the process, my advice is get a good GC and enjoy the ride as much as possible. Also, once you have the plan selected, get several bids from gc's. We were shocked at how much difference there was- two were pretty close, one much lower (25%). Now I love to save money, but how can someone save that much, and not cut on quality? Trust me, we did not find out!

One more thought- we had some drywall issues after the first winter- the builder had the drywaller come out and repair it- same problem in a different area the next year, the builder had him back- all at no cost. The builder even volunteered to have it painted! I doubt that I would have gotten a return phone call, much less a day's labor from him if I had been my own contractor. just a thought....
 
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   / Building a new house - need advice #13  
I have been reading this thread with interest. I am a framing subcontractor. We frame custom homes (2500 sq ft-7000 sq ft) Although we mainly work for 2 general contractors, I have to disagree with those who say the do-it-yourself guy is at the bottom of our list. We frame 2-4 of these a year. In my experience- we get paid faster and are appreciated more by the homeowner! I will say I spend more time up front on these projects helping the owner make sure his ducks are in a row, but seeing his/her excitement each day makes it worth it. That being said- make sure you really WANT to do it, and find REPUTABLE subs! Good Luck!:) Jason
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #14  
just to echo what everyone else has said...if you don't know any subs or what their going rate is you will have to be very patient.
i built my own house and just subbed out the excavating (no problems with that) and concrete work (which took forever to get done) but i'm in a very rural area so there arent many subs to choose from.
the building inspector can be your best ally if he is dedicated to his job.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #15  
My inlaws own a construction supply company and build houses as well. They helped my wife and I build our house. My father in law was at our house 5 evenings a week with us and the only things we subbed out were plumbing, HVAC, floor coverings, brick, plaster (we hung the sheetrock), and some finish trim work. It was a ton of work, lots of fun for most of it, a royal pain for some of it, and ended up saving us about $80k on a 2300 sq. ft. home.

My wife does alot of the bookwork for her father, so I get to hear all the horror stories on her financial dealings with contractors. She knows the contractors that have lines of credit and pay on time. She knows the contractors that have lines of credit and don't pay on time. She knows the contractors that she won't extend lines of credit to, because they won't pay, ever. If you can find her counterpart in your area, talk to him or her.

My wife has a good friend that was looking to hire out a large addition to their house. They got bids and before talking to my wife, signed with a guy. As soon as my wife learned who they signed with she warned them to document everything and be prepared to get screwed. Sure enough, the guy stopped halfway through. The wife's friend, being an accountant herself, had kept meticulous paperwork, got everything in writing, and was prepared. She kept all the guys tools that he left on site and is in the process of filing a lawsuit.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #16  
There sure is a lot of good advise on this thread.
I wish I had some of these tips when acting as my GC last year.
My friend also did the same thing. His nieghbor was a banker and knew all of the subs in the area. He was able to give him guidence on which guys were paying/paid on time and had a good rep. since he could see the transactions of the parties envolved. There is much to learn but the contractors will tell you what to expect and what the bid includes. So it won't take long to learn things like the framing bid includes "In-The-Dry" that means doors, windows, tar paper are included in the framing bid. So you can make sure this is not added separately. I made the mistake of trying to let the framing sub do more than framing. They advise "we do it all" but there guys dang sure didn't want to. The never showed up for the siding or roof.
Also I saw a wide range of prices from different subs, like the electric ranged from $1.85 per SF to $2.00 per SF.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #17  
The biggest problem with being your own GC is finding competent contractors. The competent contractors are already swamped with work from their GC's. If you find a contractor who isn't already tied to a GC, trust me, there's a reason for that. Nobody wants them working on their site.

When we had our addition built, we hired a GC. It was the best money we ever spent (granted our GC was exceptional in all respects). The GC was paid 15% on top of all contractor invoices. That 15% was easily offset by better contractor and material pricing. In other words, in my opinion, the GC saved us money on our addition. I'd think about it long and hard, and consider what your time is really worth, before you jump.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #18  
If you decide not to be your own GC, or even if you do, there's one important thing you can do to make your project go more smoothly. Clean the jobsite every night. Cleanup is seldom scheduled into the job until a sub is ready to leave & get paid. No sub wants to clean up after another, even to make their own work easier. I've worked for a general that does this & claims it to be his biggest money maker. His site starts every day broom clean, because he cleaned it the night before. Short lengths of lumber are returned to the stock area & somewhat sorted. There's nothing like watching a carpenter cutting 16' 2x12's into short blocking while another is burning 3-4' pieces in the back yard. You'd be surprized at how few will pick up a broken box of nails, it's easier to buy a new box. There's a lot less surprises when you've walked the entire site each night without distraction. MikeD74T
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #19  
This is a great thread. I agree with virtually every post. [Jason L, wish there were more subs like you!] Since I work for a GC, I see this stuff every day, and I have direct experience with what it takes to get a big construction project done.

Now, my advice is based on history. I have remodeled 2 historic homes and built another. For remodels, GC isn't so bad as long as you have the knowlege, money, skills and time. For the new construction, it was a part-time job all by itself just checking the very unprofessional GC, inspecting his work, getting him to live up to his committments, talking to the building inspector to get violations written [since I was ignored half the time], writing letters to lawyers, and on and on. The project was a condo for Mom, and she picked the location and not the builder - a big company who has been on Nightline, 60 Minutes, etc. and is the worst bunch of scoundrels in the industry.

My point is, your time would probably be better used by learning about construction, and critiquing your GC's work in a constructive way, rather than being the GC and trying to work without the benefits of an industry presence and the relationships that are a requirement to succeed in construction.

Also, this is supposed to be fun.... there's nothing quite like moving into a home that is really yours, the product of your imagination and input, executed by professionals who really know what they're doing. It isn't quite like the satisfaction of physically building it yourself but there aren't many people who can actually do that.

Finally - The next time I do this, it will be with a modular. A good modular home is tough to beat.
 
   / Building a new house - need advice #20  
MikeD74T has a realy good point. It's very rare that any of your subs will clean up after themselves and they almost never reuse a piece of wood. The sheetrockers are allot better at using scrap material, but the framers are in a hurry. No time to pull a nail out of a stud that didnt fit right or some other problem.

One job that I was on the framers put the walls up on the bathrooms before the tubs arrived. You can't put a one piece bathtub in through a doorway. So they pulled the studs out to get the tub in and threw the studs away. They just needed the nailes taken out to be as good as new, but nobody was going to do that.

Another thing that you'll run into is money issues. The basic process is to get the loan aproved from the bank. They will aprove a certain level of funds for your project and as each step is accomplished or finished, they will make the funds available to you to pay off your sub or supplier. The bank will require a bill for this showing it's been done or delivered. What happens with some subs is they are so broke or in dept, that they will try to get you to advance them a few bucks before they start a job. Most will be realy nice guys that seem very genuine and honest. Never front any money to a sub. The quickest way to have them disapear is to pay them for work that isn't already done and done right. Even if they finish something and give you a bill, make sure it's done to your satisfaction. This is what the GC does best. He knows what the framing should look like, the plumbing, wiring and everything else. We will only allow the subs to be paid when it passes "HIS" inspection.

When you act as the GC, than it's your call if the work was done properly and what you wanted. If they got lazy and try to cover something up, do it wrong or put something where it's not supposed to be, than you have to make sure they fix it. Never pay until it's fixed!!!

One of the bigger builders around this area has several crews of framers. Some of these crews are very, very good. He also has a crew that doesn't speak any english, or he had them at the time I was involved. He called me to figure out what was wrong with a particular job because the home owner wasn't happy and he coldn't get there right away. I was close by and went to take a look. They had put the windows in the wrong locations!!! A crew can frame a house in a few days to a few weekd, depending on how big or complicated it is. These guys spent two days and got it totally wrong before anybody caught them. They couldn't read english, or the plans, so they just guessed from the drawings on the plan.

He had to bring another crew in to fix that mess, make the client happy and do it correctly. He did this as soon as I told him what had happened, but it cost the GC money for this mistake.

Plumbers put fixtures in the wrong place or forget to put them in other locations. Electricians that say they are done but forget to put all the outlets in, or run out of wire and do an illegal splice and try to hide it. Cabinets that come in the wrong size or the door panels don't match. Painters that mix there paints and get the wrong color in a room, or totally forget certain things.

I've heard allot of stories like these. It's fairly common and something you have to realize before you start hiring people.

It can be done by a novice, and it happens all the time. Unfortunately, the novice is also taken advantage of on many occasions. Even when the house is done and they think it all went well, the problems only surface years later.

The inspector will only tell you what's illegal, not what's sloppy or of poor quality if it's not in violation of the law. He'll probably see it, but I doubt very seriously he'd mention it to you, if you even saw him when he did his inspections.

Good luck,
Eddie
 

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