Building a porch

[fatjay]

I currently have a 16'x20' poured concrete back porch. The problem is over the years the slabs have settled and become uneven. To get it repaired would be very expensive($2000+). So I was going to build on top of it.

First thought was a deck out of trex. Problem is it's expensive, and I was looking for something a bit sturdier. So I was thinking of going pavers. If I do the perimiter in 6"x8"x16" cinder block, then I can mix morter and sand for a base, and put 12"x12" pavers down. I was going to build the cinderblocks up 3 or 4 high, so either 24" or 32" high, then put something on top, stucco the outside and paint it. then i can water the pavers which should solidify the sand/mortar under it to keep them from moving, then put down a sealer and paint it tan or something like that. There's a spigot against the house, which I was going to put a stainless outdoor sink in so I'd have running water, and run a drain line over into the yard.

Problem is I've never done something like this so I'm not sure what challenges I'm going to face, or problems that may come up. The 20' length and 6' wide cinder blocks means 19 blocks. but i'd rather have the blocks in place before i do anything permanent, to avoid having spacing issues. so if anyone has experience with this sort of thing I'd love to hear it.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

It sounds like you are going to create a a pond unless you are planning on filling the entire block with mortar. I'd look very closely at my drainage for that setup. Also, if the slab has settled that much over the years, what is going to keep it from moving with additional weight? Obviously nothing. I'd be more interested in ditching the existing slab, putting in a frost wall, and back filling with soil and compacting in 4" lifts until I got high enough to switch to stone, Id also have some drains laid in so that any water making it through the pavers got an easy escape.


Trex is very sturdy if installed correctly. Why are you leaning towards masonry instead of wood?

 

[EddieWalker]

If you calculate all the materials its going to take to cover the existing concrete with pavers, you'll find that pouring new concrete is going to be cheaper.

 

[Snobdds]

If you calculate all the materials its going to take to cover the existing concrete with pavers, you'll find that pouring new concrete is going to be cheaper.

Exactly!

Pavers require a lot of prep work to do right. I mean a lot.

I put a stamped and stained concrete patio in because it cheaper and less work for a back yard.

 

[fatjay]

Trex is on the expensive side. The location of the porch i can't get a cement truck to without removing a fence. The disposal of old concrete would be a pain and expensive. the existing slabs are 18" thick, I've drilled down in multiple places, they really went to town, it's a lot of concrete. The slabs were poured in '64 and the dirt wasn't properly settled when they poured. In the 10 years I've lived there the concrete hasn't moved at all, so I don't think there will be additional shifting.

I was planning to pitch it away from the house and have drain holes in the corners so it would not retain water. Right now water just sits because the middle is the area where the slabs have shifted, up to 2" in some areas. it is gradually absorbed by the ground under through the seams between them.

 

[fatjay]

Priced out the material for the pavers/blocks is about $800, compared to about $2300 for trex. pouring new, while ideal, would be a great deal of hassle since i can't really get a cement truck there. and i already have mixed concrete for a new slabs around the pool when i had to remove them. 20 bags didn't go nearly as far as i thought it would.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Have you priced having someone lift you existing pad?

 

[fatjay]

Yes the price to fix the pads is about $2000. Then they're still stained and pitted and generally unpleasant looking. I've pressure washed them every year but it's had little effect.

 

[Billrog]

There are no short cuts or cheap way to make a decent deck that won't come back to haunt you in the future. If the existing pads are 18" thick sounds like they'd make a good foundation to work from.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Yes the price to fix the pads is about $2000. Then they're still stained and pitted and generally unpleasant looking. I've pressure washed them every year but it's had little effect.

Ok. Where they mud jacking or where they going to lift it wilts foam?

 

[fatjay]

mud jacking sounds like it. They would drill holes and pump stuff down which would force the slab up with high pressure pumps. I'm not looking to cut corners, there's just a couple ways to do it right, and I"m looking for the cheaper of those ways. Plus, i prefer a brick and mortar approach to wood personally. I like the feel of it. I can put a fire pit on it and not have to worry about causing damage. The goal is to put the pavers over top if it's possible, I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook anything. I'm fairly sure the slabs shifted early on in their life 50 years ago, though.

I've seen some places say mix mortar with sand, vs strait sand. Strait sand should still feel sturdy when packed right?

 

[zzvyb6]

My concrete guy charges $3.00 per square foot. He hauls away the old concrete and sells it back to a cement plant for use as gravel and cooking cement. He just adding 300 ft to my driveway and a 15 by 50 apron to my shed (8 bag mix). Includes the forming, but I did the base prep using existing driveway 21-AA limestone rubble.

He's retired from the business but can't keeps his boots out of it. I'm curious what the rest of you get charged and for what: removal of old, forming, rebar, slitting and cleanup. The concrete plant is 1 mile up the road. He says they do 1,000 yards a week, year round from there.

 

[Snobdds]

My concrete guy charges $3.00 per square foot. He hauls away the old concrete and sells it back to a cement plant for use as gravel and cooking cement. He just adding 300 ft to my driveway and a 15 by 50 apron to my shed (8 bag mix). Includes the forming, but I did the base prep using existing driveway 21-AA limestone rubble.

He's retired from the business but can't keeps his boots out of it. I'm curious what the rest of you get charged and for what: removal of old, forming, rebar, slitting and cleanup. The concrete plant is 1 mile up the road. He says they do 1,000 yards a week, year round from there.

That is so cheap. How does he make any money. My dad is a GC, and 7 to 10 per square foot is common. Larger jobs are closer to 7 and smaller jobs closer to 10 and that's just pad and sidewalk work.

I still think pavers will loose the economy of the project once time and labor is factored in.

 

[fatjay]

Time and labor is my own, so I don't count it. Just a weekend project. I've gotten 7-10 per square foot as well, at 4" thick. This is 18" for a reason, it's on a grade. So if I bust up the concrete, I'll have to back fill with dirt at minimum, otherwise it's 16x20x4.5, even at $7/sq ft that's $10k for a new slab 16'x20'x18" deep

 

[Snobdds]

I'm getting $3,360 for your slab at $7.00. Decrease your slab thickness to 6 inches and your in the 1100 range, but add in fill to that number.

Can you tell I'm pushing you towards concrete...lol.

 

[Deere Dude]

What about taking a portion of the fence down and have them pour right over the top to the desired pitch you need? That would be very easy to do.

 

[EddieWalker]

Sounds like you don't want to go with concrete over the old stuff. I don't care for the look of a concrete porch either, but there isn't anything that beats it cost wise. Removing a fence doesn't sound too hard, but getting a cement truck into a back yard can sometimes create more damage then it's worth.

Pavers are nice, but expensive. If not done correctly, can be a never ending project.

You mentioned Trex, which is nice, but week and expensive.

Why not go over it with treated 2x6's to create a wooden deck? It should be easy to either span the cracks, or shim up the deck boards so it comes out flat.

If you have the room for pavers, you should have plenty of room for treated lumber.