Building my Fence

[Steppenwolfe]

Very nice...

 

[Carl_NH]

Thanks Eddie,

This is more or less as envisioned with the bolt into the post - thanks for all the detailed pictures too! Nice straight fence lines, and gates too.

I am looking at similar black gates from TSC with 2x4 wire filled opening, or Tarter which has rounded corners of various sizes several 4 or 5', then two double 8' for 2 16' entry/exit gates. The wife wants "nice gates" - do you use the same gates or a mix depending on location?

 

[EddieWalker]

They are all 12 foot, green wire filled gates, but it's become hit or miss who has them. Tractor supply has the square topped ones, and Atwood's has the rounded topped gates. I try to use the same type if they are close to each other, but I have both mixed all over my place and I expect that to continue.

 

[Rustyiron]

A nice fence is no small job. I know yours will be nice.
I've kept horses in with high tensile (7 strand) before in areas out of view. That does "move along" pretty fast and never had a horse get hurt by it but it looks like you have a good plan going. I'll be watching.

 

[kubota shifty]

I've spent years clearing my fence line, and I'm still a long ways from being done, but I'm finally at a place where I can start building it. Since I have horses and goats, I'm going to do it all in 2x4 horse fence that's 4 feet tall. I'm running a strand of barbwire at the bottom for my straight line, and also to discourage animals from digging under it. I'm also running barb wire at the top of the fence to discourage animals from leaning over the fence, and maybe slow some down from climbing over it.

I do not like H bracing. Welded seems to hold up OK for short runs, but I've never seen a wood H brace that was doing much of anything that's been there awhile. After doing a lot of reading online, watching YouTube videos, visiting different farms and ranches, and thinking about what works and why it works, I decided to go with a simple brace against my corner posts. I did this with my dog yard and I've been very happy with the results. Now I'm doing it for my pastures.

I have 68 acres. I'm dividing up the land into 4 grazing pastures that are around 12 to 14 acres. Then there will be a male goat pasture that's about 2 acres to separate them out from the girls. I have a gazebo that I started years ago, but lost interest in, that will be converted to the boy barn. I'll have to run power and water to the gazebo, but it's already close to there, so it's not going to be an issue. That will happen after I finish the first pasture. And the original pasture is 5 acres that has my barn and small pond. This will remain our feeding area. It also has the barn, which is going to become 3 times bigger. We will also create our handling area there, along with a holding area for goats that we are selling.

I currently have a couple types of fencing in place that I hate. The new pasture is outlined in red in the first picture. Green shows where the gates will be. I'm still taking out trees, but most of it is ready to go. The Google picture is several years old and it doesn't show how much that I've cleared since then.

The second picture shows what I want it to look like when it's all done. My plan is to be able to rotate the animals from one pasture to the other every week. They will have one week in a pasture, while the other 3 pastures will have 3 weeks of rest and growth. Then in the Fall, when growing season ends, I'll open all the gates between the pastures and they can go where they want until Spring. This will also allow me to spray for weeks and not have anybody in that pasture for several weeks. If a tree falls on a fence, I can keep that pasture closed until it's fixed. Hopefully I will remove all the trees that might do this, but I also know this is impossible and eventually I'll have to deal with a tree taking out my fence.

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Must have hotwire if you want to keep the horses safe. They will definitely catch the bottom wire and get cut severely. Non-climb isn't really safe if the horses have shoes because they will get it caught between the shoe and hoof. Hotwire is cheap and keeps your horses off the fence. Works well for goats too.

 

[Paul in TN]

Must have hotwire if you want to keep the horses safe. They will definitely catch the bottom wire and get cut severely. Non-climb isn't really safe if the horses have shoes because they will get it caught between the shoe and hoof. Hotwire is cheap and keeps your horses off the fence. Works well for goats too.

I run 2x4 no climb horse fence on all my perimeters. And on top I run electric rope. That keeps them from leaning over the top and pushing the fence down. All my cross fencing is electric rope. Easy up and easy down if a disaster happens.

 

[dclt736]

I run 2x4 no climb horse fence on all my perimeters. And on top I run electric rope. That keeps them from leaning over the top and pushing the fence down. All my cross fencing is electric rope. Easy up and easy down if a disaster happens.

I have been using high tensile electric wire for my horses now for over 10 years. Bottom wire is not connected, all others are. They completely respect that wire and stay well back from it. I would never suggest using barbed wire anywhere near horses. I also use electric tape to break up larger areas, for better grazing with the tread-ins and they work well for temporary fence. On steel post, use a good quality insulator to prevent shorts. Going the high tensile route allows for somewhat wider post spacing and much easier for one man to build fence. Ends and corner posts need to be strong and well installed and braced. Also with high tensile, you will save a fair amount compared to woven horse wire fencing.

 

[RancherGuy]

... I have horses and goats, I'm going to do it all in 2x4 horse fence that's 4 feet tall. I'm running a strand of barbwire at the bottom for my straight line, and also to discourage animals from digging under it. I'm also running barb wire at the top of the fence to discourage animals from leaning over the fence, and maybe slow some down from climbing over it.

I do not like H bracing. Welded seems to hold up OK for short runs, but I've never seen a wood H brace that was doing much of anything that's been there awhile. After doing a lot of reading online, watching YouTube videos, visiting different farms and ranches, and thinking about what works and why it works, I decided to go with a simple brace against my corner posts. I did this with my dog yard and I've been very happy with the results. Now I'm doing it for my pastures.

...

Sounds like a great plan - intensive grazing. I'd always dreamed of that, but never accomplished it. After 25 years of ranching, I'll try to be brief with my experiences.

I am still replacing my barbed wire fencing with field fence, where necessary. I have cattle and I can get away with wire having 12" between verticals and horizontals graduated with 3" bottom spacing and 6" top spacing. I run a barbed along the bottom for the same reason as you and I have also seen it successful in keeping noses from pushing the bottom out to reach fresh grass. I observed my neighbor's new fencing (barbed) done by a crew and after a year determined that it could be improved. They used all 10 foot galv pipe: ends and corners in H, then the inner H pole has 45 degree like yours but connected at the top instead of half way down. They used 2-7/8" corners and ends, with 2-3/8 everywhere else. So basically an end as 3 poles in the ground. I noted that with wire tensioning and our clay soil, the corners are lifting. I'm an engineer by education and realized that the only way to reduce lifting is to increase leverage to counter the lift force. With my fencing design, it has been years and nothing has lifted or leaned. Here is my design:

The forces on the poles are as follows: corner/end force is up, inner pole force is down. The concrete around the poles is to cause resistance. My post hole digger is 48", thus the reason for the depths. For the H, I drill both holes. The corner pole is pressed below the bottom of the hole by my tractor loader, guided by my wife and a level. The longer the horizontal piece, the less the lifting force on the corner, thus I prefer 10'. Concrete is 1/2 to 3/4 sack so that it grips the pole but does not fill too high. If the drilled hole were to be filled close to the surface, it no longer acts like a plug and can be pulled up more easily. The 15 foot spacing is because without noses and heads pressing through, such as allowed with a barbed wire fence, there is no horizontal pressure. All posts then only become a means to hold the fence upright - not to resist animals pressing through for food. After years, I have no leaning. 6 foot t-posts may have been sufficient.

I like the idea of barbed for the top wire. Without some type of deterrent, I have seen horses push a field fence down to 2 feet high. For the top wire I like 4 point wire to ensure anything necking over the wire learns not to do that. If pricked with each temptation, I would not expect continued attempts. I have tried electric wire for other situations and have only found it to be easily grounded or some other type of failure, so I avoid it entirely.

Observing your current implementation, with the 45 degree support against the corner, note that your corner will be exposed to tremendous vertical force. Your pasture wire will be tighter than your dog wire. For the pasture, calculation-wise, each wire above ground level (I count 13) will pull up on your corner by the same force as the wire tension. Therefore if the average wire is pulling 30 pounds, there will be 390 pounds of constant lift in all types of temperature and weather. Weather causes slight movements in the soil.

Another observation is the wire wrapping around your post. To quote a standard, the USDA specifications, if they were to pay for any fencing, requires each wire to wrap a post 2 times. I suppose this keeps staples from being the primary force holding the wire against the post. Even treated wood will soften and staples will loosen.

Just trying to pass along some thoughts for the remaining fence.

(edit: above the concrete is compacted soil)

 

[EddieWalker]

I appreciate all the comments and advice.

I am currently relying on electric fencing to keep my horses in. I also have goats and they could care less about the hot wire. They walk right through it, and push the wires apart. They do this over and over, all day long. My charger is rated at 2 joules and it sends out a pulse. I have two rows of tape up high for the horses and high tensile wire at the bottom to keep the goats in and predators out. The wire works great for hogs, coyotes and racoons. I haven't lost a single chicken or duck since installing it. I have 3 ground rods set 12 feet apart to max out the charger. In summer, when the ground gets really dry, I'm in the 7,000 volts range on my tester, and in winter, it's well over double that. Overall, I'm not all that satisfied with eclectic and would prefer not to deal with it again. Since I already have everything, I'll add it if I have to, but only if I have to.

I went back and forth on how to do my corner posts and how to brace them. As a contractor, I've done quite a bit of framing and it's amazing how much strength there is in a single diagonal 2x4 in holding up a wall. When looking at H braces, I feel that the strength is in the diagonal wire that is holding the cross beam in place. Once the wire stretches, the H brace loses it's strength. My first plan was to replace the wire with a board going from the top of the corner to the bottom of the second post to lock it all together. Eventually I came to think that the second post and horizontal post wasn't even needed once you had the corner post locked into position. Then I wondered how to make the diagonal support brace stronger. That's where the pipe came in. It wont warp, stretch, rot or dry out over time.

To deal with the force of the fence pulling on it over long distances, I am stapling the fence to each of my wood posts, every 50 feet. I think this will give the fence enough room to expand and contract, but also relieve a lot of the pull created by a long run.

It is just as important to me to keep predators and hogs out as it is to keep my goats and horses in.

 

[RancherGuy]

... As a contractor, I've done quite a bit of framing and it's amazing how much strength there is in a single diagonal 2x4 in holding up a wall. When looking at H braces, I feel that the strength is in the diagonal wire that is holding the cross beam in place. Once the wire stretches, the H brace loses it's strength. ...

You are right about the diagonals - in static situations. But for fencing you have soil which moves with the weather. The objective is to reduce forces that would cause the posts to move. Ground is not a static floor and the corner post is not truly anchored - like hurricane straps that might keep a wall corner anchored to the floor. And by forces, imagine an analogy where you have a free-standing wall. If a wind is pressing on the wall and you are on the other side, holding it up against the pressure, what are the forces? If you are holding it at a point 6' above the floor, you are acting like your diagonal fence brace. You are pressing at a diagonal angle, meaning horizontal but also vertical. If that wall was not heavy enough, you could not keep it from lifting off the floor. Similar forces are on your corner post.

As for the cross wire, the idea is to use multiple strands. I have a roll of barbless 12 gauge, which is a double wire. I then run a double loop for the diagonal, therefore there is a total of 8 wires. I take a 12"-18" of rebar and twist it at the center of the span to tighten it up, then stick one end into the field fence. Even with one loop, I have never witnessed loosening, but I have witnessed breakage due to excessive twisting if the loop starts too loose. And for function, the purpose of the wire is to keep the shape of the "H" constant.

As for the corner lifting force, the upward force is directly proportional to the distance between the post and the first object that touches the ground - your diagonal piece. This is why I make my H between 8 and 10 feet wide. Twice the distance means half the upward force on the corner. And the (edit: your) diagonal is being pressed longitudinally into the ground. The lower it's contact point on the corner, the more the force. Even if you surround that pipe with concrete, keep in mind that the soil around it will move with weather, so hopefully it runs deep and has a resistance to pressure well below the soil surface.