Building my Fence

[RancherGuy]

View attachment 729687

I'm not sure why you have the barbed wire and the field wire so high. I place both on the ground. If the wire is quality and the soil doesn't have something to destroy the zinc, the galvanizing should last decades. And if it doesn't last, it is simple to lay a new barbed wire along the ground.

My technique is to put my end posts and corners in, then run the bottom barbed wire on the ground. Tighten to final tension. Now I have the straight line for all of the intermediate posts. The field fence is also set on the ground, thus rises 48 inches up from that. Top wire is no more than 2 inches above the field fence - to keep noses from pushing between to push the field fence down.

The benefit to me is that with the wire into the grass, the grass itself starts to hold the wire from any type of movement, and even small critters do not find a gap to use.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

I'm not sure why you have the barbed wire and the field wire so high. I place both on the ground. If the wire is quality and the soil doesn't have something to destroy the zinc, the galvanizing should last decades. And if it doesn't last, it is simple to lay a new barbed wire along the ground.

My technique is to put my end posts and corners in, then run the bottom barbed wire on the ground. Tighten to final tension. Now I have the straight line for all of the intermediate posts. The field fence is also set on the ground, thus rises 48 inches up from that. Top wire is no more than 2 inches above the field fence - to keep noses from pushing between to push the field fence down.

The benefit to me is that with the wire into the grass, the grass itself starts to hold the wire from any type of movement, and even small critters do not find a gap to use.

I don't know how true this is, but I was constantly told to use class 3 galvanized wire if it was in contact with the ground as it has more than twice the coating thickness as class 1 wire.

 

[RancherGuy]

I don't know how true this is, but I was constantly told to use class 3 galvanized wire if it was in contact with the ground as it has more than twice the coating thickness as class 1 wire.

I was not aware that there were different classes, but certainly the more the merrier.

 

[RancherGuy]

Thought I would do a show-and-tell on my neighbor's "professionally built" fence. After approximately 7 years, here are 3 example corners that I photographed today:

Simple observation should be sufficient to say that something is wrong with the design. The builder installed 3 posts: Two stand about 4 feet above ground level (6 feet below ground level), one is about 1 foot high. Distance between each is approximately 6 feet, all connections are welded.

My thoughts are as follows:

1) The corner post has little vertical resistance. It's just a pipe stuck in the ground.
2) The middle post has little vertical resistance.
3) The "short" post is installed vertically, thus resistance to pushing from the angled pipe is poor.
4) There is no way to correct the situation, short of removing and rebuilding the corners.

As a result of the movement, all of the fence wires down the line are loose and all of the intermediate posts show that they have been pulled with the wire, meaning they too are leaning.

In contrast, my design, included in an earlier post, with the similar galvanized pipe has not a single corner or end that has lifted or leaned in 5 years.

 

[EddieWalker]

Here is my design:

View attachment 729665

Thank you for the pictures of your neighbors fence. I've seen similar results too.

In your drawing, I believe that you have taken the traditional design and improved upon it. Is the diagonal bracing wire or is it something solid?

With your design, which was originally created 200 years ago, the engineering was based on only having wood and wire to work with. The wire pulls the second post towards the corner post and locks it together with the cross post. By going deeper and adding the anchors to your posts, you've also increased the structural strength of it.

A triangle is the strongest shape in construction. The triangle is upside down in your design, and relies on 6 points of contact to create a solid structure. The only function of the second post is to support the cross beam. It offers no strength to the corner post.

In my opinion, I've simplified the design by using a much stronger diagonal bracing. The metal pipe set in concrete. I have 3 points of contact, which means if just one fails, I'll have total failure. But it also means that there are less places for failure when compared to a H designed corner.

In my soil, I believe that your design will work flawlessly if the diagonal wire doesn't stretch over time. I also believe that in my soil, my design will work, but cost less money and time to create.

 

[RancherGuy]

Is the diagonal bracing wire or is it something solid?

Diagonal is wire. I use twisted 12 gauge double wire (like barbed wire) but with no barbs. Any strong wire will do. I use 2 loops before twisting it tight, therefore there are a total of 8 wires.

The triangle is upside down in your design, and relies on 6 points of contact to create a solid structure. The only function of the second post is to support the cross beam. It offers no strength to the corner post.

There are actually two triangles. The second post (inner) must support the horizontal piece.

In my soil, I believe that your design will work flawlessly if the diagonal wire doesn't stretch over time. I also believe that in my soil, my design will work, but cost less money and time to create.

If the diagonal wire should stretch, which is unlikely, all that is necessary is to add an extra turn or two on the crosswire.

I can't advise you on what is best for your situation. I'm pointing out some design flaws in other situations so they can be avoided. Coming up, I'll post one more engineering consideration, then I'm done.

 

[Blue Mule]

Why don't you like H-bracing for corners? We do it like that up here in Kentucky with horses, cattle, goats, and the worst weather conditions you can imagine from blazing summer sun to deep snow to torrential rain...and they last for 20-30 years on average.

 

[RancherGuy]

Eddie,

This is my image of what you are using:

Symbolically, the following is a summary of the active forces. The relationship between your post and pipe might be considered to be a fixed structure, like and L bracket:

The red dot represents a fulcrum point of rotation. C is the wire tension, D is the resulting lift on the post (A). If the length of segment B is half the length of segment A, then a 200 pound wire tension (C) would result in a lift (D) of 400 pounds.

If segment B length is equal to segment A, then the lift (D) is equal to (C):

The beauty of an H design is that the length of segment B represents the distance between posts. If the distance is 8 feet and the post height above ground is 4 feet, then the lift D drops to half of wire tension C. The diagonal wire is only to assure that the shape of the H (or square if constructed that way) remains unchanged.

edit:
The math, expressed as an equation:
(A x C) = (B x D)
or if solving for D, this changes to:
D = (A x C) / B

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie,

This is my image of what you are using:
View attachment 729784

Symbolically, the following is a summary of the active forces. The relationship between your post and pipe might be considered to be a fixed structure, like and L bracket:

View attachment 729785

The red dot represents a fulcrum point of rotation. C is the wire tension, D is the resulting lift on the post (A). If the length of segment B is half the length of segment A, then a 200 pound wire tension (C) would result in a lift (D) of 400 pounds.

If segment B length is equal to segment A, then the lift (D) is equal to (C):

View attachment 729786

The beauty of an H design is that the length of segment B represents the distance between posts. If the distance is 8 feet and the post height above ground is 4 feet, then the lift D drops to half of wire tension C. The diagonal wire is only to assure that the shape of the H (or square if constructed that way) remains unchanged.

edit:
The math, expressed as an equation:
(A x C) = (B x D)
or if solving for D, this changes to:
D = (A x C) / B

I understand your point, but I disagree on the fulcrum comparison.

The diagonal pipe eliminates the desire for the post to want to come out of the ground the same as any other bracing system, but it does it in one piece instead of 3 additional pieces.

This eliminates the ongoing maintenance required in keeping the wire tensioned.

Going back to your picture of the professionally installed corner, they failed to anchor the posts, or they where not deep enough for their soil. The diagonal bracing was too far off of the ground, and all of it was able to flex. If they had simplified it, it would have been stronger.

 

[EddieWalker]

Why don't you like H-bracing for corners? We do it like that up here in Kentucky with horses, cattle, goats, and the worst weather conditions you can imagine from blazing summer sun to deep snow to torrential rain...and they last for 20-30 years on average.

View attachment 729783

I have never been to Kentucky, so I can't comment on how well fencing holds up there. Here in East Texas, where we have red clay soil, I have noticed that every single corner that I've seen done this way has become loose over the years. The last one I looked at was between 5 to ten years old, and the wire was loose and the cross beam was bowed. The posts where leaning over slightly, but not significantly. They where working on fixing it by pulling it back with a tractor, and filling around the posts with concrete. Then they said that they will tighten the wire the next day or two. I don't know if they did or didn't, it was at a house I was looking at for a client, and I haven't been back. It was built with new PT round posts.

I will admit that I've also noticed a lot of H corners built with railroad ties, and they where all in very bad shape. In my opinion, railroad ties should never be used for fencing. They rot very quickly when they are in the ground, and nothing can save them.