Building Roads

[W5FL]

Since Texas finally got some rain - unfortunately all at once, most of my driveway is in the ditches or the highway. It is now time for rebuilding. I sold my old box blade and am waiting to get another one. The county road behind my house was simply leveled, then very small rock/gravel put on it. I guess they rolled it and I guess you can rent a roller. Are rollers expensive to rent or buy? Then they sprayed it with some kind of black stuff that looks like a paved road except that it is very thin and probably just a binder for the gravel. Haven't found anyone who is set up to do this for residential driveways. Anyone have any ideas on how to build a gravel road and put some kind of sealer on it so it will stand up to the weather.

I guess if I can't figure that out I will eventually just get the Roadmaster grader attachment and keep it up after each rain.

The other thing that must be done is get all the ditches dug out so the water doesn't get on the road. I was hoping to angle a box blade to dig them out because I don't have a heavy rear blade.

I have also never done a really good job of crowning the road so that water does not run down the road. How do you crown an existing road without adding a lot more road base? Guess that is a dumb question, if I don't add more road base where will the gravel in the ditch come from next time. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[richh]

Wen, my drive is about a 1/2 mile long, and I had trouble for years untill I got a crown on it. Just got fed up and bought some reground asphalt rather than road gravle.This is not as dusty and seam to pack good. I don't know that else is in your ditch but you can use your loader to scoop up whats left of your road if the ditch isn't to deep and your road is wide enough!!I use a landscape rake to crown up the road , but you have to have some gravle to bring back to the center. Glad here you got some rain./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Rich

 

[TomG]

Regular gravel here in Northern Ontario is a mix of sand and small rock. It's different than the small rock stuff that I remember being dumped on section roads. You know, the stuff that never seems to pack, and it feels like your truck is wind surfing unless you stay in the ruts. I think that's called pea gravel here.

Most people's drives here are regular gravel. It packs reasonably well, and after a few rains, there's a layer of packed rock on the surface. I believe that any road surface has to have a bed before in order to be very durable. Asphalt on dirt doesn't last long. I think of the sand/gravel mix around here as sort of self-bedding. Put down enough of it, and it's pretty durable once it's settled with sand beneath and rock on top. Of course, it's not going to survive going down the side of a wash in canyon country, but what will?

I'm going to do some work on my drive when I get the tractor back from our camp. I plan to get a load of gravel and improve the crown with a box scraper. I'll also dig the side drainage ditches deeper and put in some crushed rock to slow erosion in the ditches. I'll try to dig the ditches with the scraper, but I may not be able get enough tilt with the lower link leveler dig them out much more. Anyway, I'll do the crown first since it will give me a better angle for the ditches and then hope I can get enough tilt on the scraper. A good rear blade with tilts and swings would work better, but I can't justify having both.

I've got a hydraulic top link which is real handy with the scraper. I think there are hydraulic set up for lower links as well that perhaps could give greater tilt. I think Mark mentioned them.

There is a local company called 'The Gravel Doctor.' They advertise 'revolutionary process for restoring gravel drives.' I don't know what they do, but it seems like there is something other than just adding more gravel.

 

[Thomas]

wen,
I have 450' driveway and 1/3 of the driveway has about 30 degree pitch,and once a year the water digs out the the ditches and where the driveway is level there sets the gravel./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
Since I purchase RI York I use the grader blade and clean the ditches.
I 45 degree the blade so the gravel once again be in the center of the road,than I use the rake to make my pitch.
From the edge of the ditch to the center I try and end up with a 4" pitch.

About evey 2 years or so I have a load of what is call hard pack bought in.
Hard pack is fine crush ledge and once in place it binds well,but the cost is /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I have notice more and more steep driveways are starting to use recycle asphalt mix with gravel, I just wonder how good that it is.

I've yet to read where you mention about asking a dumb question !!

Have a pleasant day. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif


Thomas..NH

 

[MChalkley]

TomG, if you get a chance sometime, check out the "Gravel Doctor" folks and let us know what their bag is. I'm very interested!

Yes, as you mentioned, I've got hydraulic cylinders on my side links. I've got one on both sides, because I'm a nut, but for most folks one side is probably just as good, and half as expensive.

Mark

 

[Cowboy]

Wen
Since being in the excavation business for many years (until 99...retired or got tired) I can give you some less expensive methods to crown the ole drive. First of all, If your drive is wide enough to permit, cutt as much of your base material off the road surface as possiable (either blade it to one side or bucket move it) Then If you happen to have any clay soil on your property start digging. Haul as much clay to your drive as you have available or until you have about 8" (or greater) depth x width of your drive. Then use your road master with a pitch set at about (d.s.-ditch side,c.d.- center of drive) 2"-d.s., 6"-c.d. maintain this setting and drag your drive from one end to the other on both sides. You will see your crown start forming as you work the clay. use the trial and error method on your blade settings by the way. When you have a good crown built then, use your front loader with as much down pressure applied as possiable and, still be able to steer the tractor. set your bucket in the level postion and back drag the clay first one side of the drive then the other (avoid centering the drive with your machine) work only the contour's. a front loader bucket will apply a great amount of packing pressure ( soil density tests have been passed useing only a loader bucket for packing). When you have a good,well packed crown built. again use your loader and move the old material back to the drive surface. I suggest spread dumping the material with your bucket then use your box blade or loader to dress it. or you may choose to have new material hauled in for the top surface. In our area I suggest nothing less than a Grade #2 base. You can contact Vulcan Materials in Weaherford for current pricing and delivery. The last load's I hauled from there over a year ago, my cost on the material was $3.75 a ton. I delivered it locally for $10.40 per ton.
I hope this helps with your problem.

Cowboy
BigBoyz Toyz

 

[TomG]

Both the clay and the bucket packing sound like good ideas. I packed my gravel by smoothing it with the back of a box scraper's rear cutter and then drove on it a lot. The bucket idea sounds a lot better.

I'll just mention that some care in using clay is needed. Some waterfront cottagers behind us have a private road. Some of them got together and decided that cut above the road washed down on the road too much. According to the story, they brought in a bunch of clay to stabilize the cut. I don't know how it was applied, but I've seen exposed clay layers with topsoil burdens. Now, the exposed clay washes across the road and into several of the yards. I understand a few people aren't real happy.

 

[gordon]

The key to maintaining any road or upgrading is the base and that will depend on what you have available in your area. My last house had a very long drive and it became a pain to keep graded I even build a custom rig to use on it sort of like the grademaster. It worked great but still was a pain.
I ended up buying what they call in this area is millings, its ground up asphalt and it ran me $100.00 a load for the material. I put it down 4-6 inches thick and once packed it was like a paved drive!!! About two years later I added some more where it was starting to break up in some areas and pothole up. Now at the new house I'm back to a gravel drive and a box blade, but in time I'll do the same get a few truck loads of ashpalt millings alot less hassle no dust and packs like a real paved drive.
Gordon

 

[Alan W.]

Wen where I'm from we call that tar and chip. The county uses it a lot on their roads because its cheaper than blacktop. I don't know anyone that has their drive done with it, because in the summer the tar will bubble up. This is picked up by the tires and slung on the sides of your vehicle. The county usually spreads a thin layer of dense grade over the road to prevent this.

 

[W5FL]

Cowboy,

Thanks for the information. Is your company still in operation.

My son is trying to find out what it will cost to get a road built. He was looking at some property that would require him to build about 1000 ft of road to get to it. I walked over it yesterday right after the big rain in Weatherford. It is in Peaster. The tank was running about 5 inches deep over the spillway which crossed the dirt road and we walked in about 2 inches of water over a lot of the road. Kinda afraid he is getting into a pretty good sized project.

 

[W5FL]

Any idea how much the reground asphalt costs. I don't see it listed for any of the local material places in Fort Worth, but I may not have found the right one yet.

I have a guy come around every once in a while with a story that he has some hot (not stolen /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif)asphalt left over from a job and will put it down cheap, but the price varies all over the place.

Don't know much about the cold asphalt products or how to use them.

Guess roadbuilding is still a terrible compromise between cost and quality.

 

[gordon]

I paid $100 for twenty tons for the material plus hauling.
Wen get in touch with some construction companies that do road work. I got mine from a large road construction company. The only bad thing is some loads have some large chunks of asphalt that you will need a rake to sift out.
It comes from where they grind up an existing roadway in order to lay down new asphalt. But I said all this in my above post it worked great on my drive. Hope this helps
Gordon

 

[Cowboy]

Wen:
First of all, If the guy drives a flashy color chevy 1 ton with the "Hot" stuff....BEWARE! The ride is rough, the material is junk.
No sir, I shut the excavation side of my company down over a year ago. I still have a lot of the equipment and, 90% of it is For Sale./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
On some new property my wife and I purchased a few years back, we were faced with the same problem, just not as severe as your son's sounds. I had a 5000 sq. foot shop built on the property and had to have a good drive to access it (in any weather condition). I used the clay base method I spoke of and then topped it with aprox 6" of #2 base material. the drive is 12' wide and aprox. 1000 feet in total length, also constructed a 30' wide entrance, in a ditch that was about 4 1/2 feet deep and, 14' wide, wherein I installed an 18"x 32' culvert pipe. It took a great deal of material to construct all of the above. (somewhere around 500 tons). The drive has now been in heavy service for 4 years, and has only required maintance (blade work) one time. The pulverized hot top that has been mentioned works well for an under layment. but can be very difficult to maintain as a surface material. If you choose this method, have a good dozer operator do the finish work. any chunks that are in it can be broken up by the dozer. The best use I have found for it is, filler around a culvert pipe then topped with a quality material. Vulcan sells this stuff (if they have any) for about 2.00 a ton (thats an old price est.) plus trucking.and it does have a lower dust factor than base in most cases.
If you would like for me to, I would be glad to meet with you and your son and look at the site. We can set up the T.- level and check out the grades, I can make some suggestions and point you in a, "whats worked for me" direction.
I have built or re-built several miles of drives over the years and, no one method applies to the same task. Whatever your decision. a big beefy crown is the first step to having a near maintance free driveway, unfortunately, a maintance free is expensive in the beginning.
Drop me an e-mail if I can be of assistance.
Thanks

Cowboy
BigBoyz Toyz

 

[gordon]

Cowboy I agree with you about the one ton hot stuff its the oldest trick in the book to get jobs. They always say the same line--I'm doing a drive down the street and will have alittle left over that I could give you a good deal on---RIP OFF. They also do basement waterproofing and apply sealer to drives as well--they are gypsies we sell a couple trailers a year to them they work up north in the summer then come winter they head south. They always pay cash for a new traveltrailer and we never see them again.

About the ground ashpalt I've had very good luck using it as a top coat maybe the stuff in your area is a different grade or something? But around here if its done right from the get go it turns out just like a paved drive once its packed in and requires no maintance for a few years at worst and that is only if its put down to thin or has a poor base. After I did my own I also did a few others much shorter in lengh only a few hundred feet in lengh and they have held up just as well. The key is to do it when its warm out so it packs in well. Guess what works for one wont work so well for another./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

 

[W5FL]

Thanks for the information on the road. I wonder if you can find a used water filled roller that you could pull behind a tractor to roll the base. That is the part that I never got right. Haven't tried to pack with the loader yet. The box blade when dragging with the rear blade leaves a nice surface, but I am sure rolling it would help.

 

[PBMAX]

Wen, good post I have a similar question far ya'll...I need to build a drive from scratch.The land is good rich and rolling. It will be down hill from the house to the road in a fairly straight line..Over all about Just a guestimate but I say about a 8-12' gradual drop,300' to 400' at most from were the house will be to the road. My biggist question is should I move most of the top soil and bring in chirt or somthing before I put down gravel.The topsoil has a fair amount of clay and is sandy as well...I have pushed some down over a 12" x 20' galvinised colvert (just so it won't wander off) and it has stayed packed pretty well even after a few heavy rains but it also hasn't been driven on much...The reason I don't wont to move the soil is it is any were from 8" to 16" deep and that is a lot of fill to bring in to get the drive back up close to level or better with the grass..Plus the few inches of gravel...And it will be at least 300ft..Not to mention I still don't own a tractor so it's either rent one or pay some one to do it.Right now except for the colvert it is all grass covered and it hasn't been farmed in a few years.....Any ideas???Would be nice if I were as far along as WEN..course his probably been there a while and I havn't even starded the foundation.Maybe if I can do it right from the out set I can reduce future head aches...A well good evening or rather mornin all..it bed time...

Lil' Paul