Bulldozer
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Where are you located? One of the very best places for undercairage parts is Cypress Equipment up in Pittsburg TX. I've talked to dealers in Dallas, Ft. Worth all the way down to just above Houston who all go to Cypress.
When I through my track, I brought the track up to them on my trailer and they repaird it that day for $100.
I was real close to buying a 1969 Cat D7 before I bought mine. The sprockets for that were going to be around $500 from Holt Cat here in Tyler. You might find a cheaper deal someplace then the dealer, but I'd check with Cat before wasting a bunch of time running around looking for them. You might also talk to the mechanics to see what's involved in pulling the sprocket.
With the sprocket so far gone, you really need to look at the bushings. The sprokect makes contact with the bushings, which are part of the tracks. This is where the real money is spent as it's not something you can do yourself. Bushings have to be pressed into place. They can be turned, which means taking off the track and bringing it to a shop like Cypress, They will rotate the bushing 180 degress. The worn side is no longer in contact with the sprocket, and now you have brand new bushings. A dozer that old with a worn sprocket probably has had it's bushings turned. They are probably as worn as the sprocket if I was to guess.
If these are so far gone that you can't run the tractor, I'd estimeate $5,000 on up for new bushings. The age of your tractor is a big mystery, so it could be allot more, or you could get lucky and there might be an aftermarket replacement that's cheaper.
Do you have a way to pick up and load tracks that weight 2,000 pounds each?
The rails are about gone too. You will probably be ok on what you have left, but if the bushings need replacing, it's foolish not to do it all.
Eddie
When I through my track, I brought the track up to them on my trailer and they repaird it that day for $100.
I was real close to buying a 1969 Cat D7 before I bought mine. The sprockets for that were going to be around $500 from Holt Cat here in Tyler. You might find a cheaper deal someplace then the dealer, but I'd check with Cat before wasting a bunch of time running around looking for them. You might also talk to the mechanics to see what's involved in pulling the sprocket.
With the sprocket so far gone, you really need to look at the bushings. The sprokect makes contact with the bushings, which are part of the tracks. This is where the real money is spent as it's not something you can do yourself. Bushings have to be pressed into place. They can be turned, which means taking off the track and bringing it to a shop like Cypress, They will rotate the bushing 180 degress. The worn side is no longer in contact with the sprocket, and now you have brand new bushings. A dozer that old with a worn sprocket probably has had it's bushings turned. They are probably as worn as the sprocket if I was to guess.
If these are so far gone that you can't run the tractor, I'd estimeate $5,000 on up for new bushings. The age of your tractor is a big mystery, so it could be allot more, or you could get lucky and there might be an aftermarket replacement that's cheaper.
Do you have a way to pick up and load tracks that weight 2,000 pounds each?
The rails are about gone too. You will probably be ok on what you have left, but if the bushings need replacing, it's foolish not to do it all.
Eddie
RobJ
Elite Member
Eddie makes perfect sense but you could also run it until it breaks...if it does, then fix it. Make sure the track is properly adjusted and go fo it. A little care by the operator goes a long way...on any piece of equipment.
You can also buy used parts in good shape all over the internet. But breaking down a track would require a couple men and FEL.
You can also buy used parts in good shape all over the internet. But breaking down a track would require a couple men and FEL.
machmeter62
Platinum Member
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Since some doubt has been presented to you because of the conditions of the sprockets; I would get an unbiased opinion of a "crawler guru" for peace of mind for the total operating condition of the tractor with his "test drive!" The conditiion of the clutches, transmission, leaks, and other pricey things. If those conditions are okay; then rationalize the cost of sprocket, pins, and bushings, and knowing the tractor will be reliable for the future work! I think used tractors of any type, are often glossed over with a new paint job? It will also help prevent any "dust-ups" in your marriage, with that coined phrase: ("I told you so!!")
RobJ
Elite Member
Here's one off Ebay. If you search ebay for dozers you can see everyone shows a picture of the drive sprokets. And they guess as to 50$ left, 75% left, etc.
You can see yours is very thin and sharp at the ends...
You can see yours is very thin and sharp at the ends...
machmeter62
Platinum Member
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From the photos, it looks like the track tensioners are adjustable, which would help prevent shedding a track; or would that just impede sprocket failure? But maybe the tensioners are self-adjusting?
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
That's a good picture that Rob posted.
What you need to look at are the ends of the points. The new on is flat, but on the one you want to buy, it's worn to a point. These are two totally different types of sprockets, but they all work the same.
The point itself isn't your real problem, it's the space between the points. On the new sprocket, it's a perfect "U" shape that will fit exactly with the bushing on the tracks.
On your worn sprocket, this space is very, very wide. Combine that with a very worn bushing that could be as much as half it's original size, and you have WAY too much slop.
When turning it, you risk having the tracks move around on the sprocket and the tracks coming off. From the wear on your pictures, this is either very likely, or soon will be.
Undercairages are rated by what percentage of material is left. When it gets to around 50% worn, it's time to replace the worn parts. Just guessing, I'd say you were in the 10 to 20% stage.
I'm gonna disagree with Rob on his recomendation to run it till it breaks. While I'm a big fan of that in some instances, this might not be one of those. Replaceing a track, or wore out components on a flat, open area is a thousand times easier then having to do it between two trees with others all twisted up all around you. I know this from experience. When I lost my track, I spent a day with the backhoe clearing out the area around it so I could work on it. I've also had this happen on hydraculic hoses. Swaping in a new hose is easy, but when your in the middle of a bush pile that you've tore up, just climbing off the tractor is dificult. Working on it is impossible.
Machmeter has a good point of having a third party look at the machine. Dozer and probably most heavy equipment operators are self appointed experts. If you talk to ten operators, every one will be an expert. Most will have never actually worked on a machine, but they still feel they know everything there is to know about them. Especially the machine they are used to running. If they don't know that model of machine, thier expertise is really limited to the basics, which is sort of what your already getting.
Go to the Cat dealer and talk to somebody in the parts department. Cat has guys that look at used machines for guys that are considering buying them. Years ago, this was free, but I don't know if it's in all areas, or if they still do it as a curtesy.
The dozer runs, it will run for awhile and probably get quite a bit of work done. What we're warning you about is that you also have a machine that is well past needing some very expesive, and highly needed repairs. The question is if you can get done what you want done without breaking down in the middle of nowhere? This is true with just about any used dozer. They all break down, just the newer ones don't do it as often as the older ones.
Eddie
What you need to look at are the ends of the points. The new on is flat, but on the one you want to buy, it's worn to a point. These are two totally different types of sprockets, but they all work the same.
The point itself isn't your real problem, it's the space between the points. On the new sprocket, it's a perfect "U" shape that will fit exactly with the bushing on the tracks.
On your worn sprocket, this space is very, very wide. Combine that with a very worn bushing that could be as much as half it's original size, and you have WAY too much slop.
When turning it, you risk having the tracks move around on the sprocket and the tracks coming off. From the wear on your pictures, this is either very likely, or soon will be.
Undercairages are rated by what percentage of material is left. When it gets to around 50% worn, it's time to replace the worn parts. Just guessing, I'd say you were in the 10 to 20% stage.
I'm gonna disagree with Rob on his recomendation to run it till it breaks. While I'm a big fan of that in some instances, this might not be one of those. Replaceing a track, or wore out components on a flat, open area is a thousand times easier then having to do it between two trees with others all twisted up all around you. I know this from experience. When I lost my track, I spent a day with the backhoe clearing out the area around it so I could work on it. I've also had this happen on hydraculic hoses. Swaping in a new hose is easy, but when your in the middle of a bush pile that you've tore up, just climbing off the tractor is dificult. Working on it is impossible.
Machmeter has a good point of having a third party look at the machine. Dozer and probably most heavy equipment operators are self appointed experts. If you talk to ten operators, every one will be an expert. Most will have never actually worked on a machine, but they still feel they know everything there is to know about them. Especially the machine they are used to running. If they don't know that model of machine, thier expertise is really limited to the basics, which is sort of what your already getting.
Go to the Cat dealer and talk to somebody in the parts department. Cat has guys that look at used machines for guys that are considering buying them. Years ago, this was free, but I don't know if it's in all areas, or if they still do it as a curtesy.
The dozer runs, it will run for awhile and probably get quite a bit of work done. What we're warning you about is that you also have a machine that is well past needing some very expesive, and highly needed repairs. The question is if you can get done what you want done without breaking down in the middle of nowhere? This is true with just about any used dozer. They all break down, just the newer ones don't do it as often as the older ones.
Eddie
EddieWalker said:
I agree with you. I'm just banking on the chance that I can get out of it what I need before it does.
If it does break before I am done, I may need to room with one of you for a while.
.machmeter62
Platinum Member
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Eddie Walker has a prior post on shedding one of his tracks on his Case 1550, and it sends a powerful message of some labor involved, if it would happen to you. It is in his archives, with pictures worth reviewing, and many hours of labor!? This will help in your decision. Maybe he will re-post it?
Dozernut
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Eddie has pretty much summed it up. Throwing a track is not fun.
On the dozer you pictured the sprockets are worn out so it stands to reason the pins and bushings are bad also. The top/bottom rollers and front idlers need to be checked, they have the same amount of hours on them. I have had the chains skip on the sprockets when the dozer was under load but running the track off is a lot worse. The last undercarriage I rebuilt I had over $5,000 in parts and I did all the labor myself.
The owner started the machine but did he move it? If he didn't, why not? I would suspect the steering clutches are also needing parts and service or he did not want to throw a track. $5000 is not a bad price for the dozer if you understand you most likely will not be able to crawl on the machine and work it without doing some expensive parts and repairs. Hope your handy with a wrench, old dozers need a little tlc. You might want to check on the "Berco" brand for undercarriage parts, cheaper than OEM parts. You should be able to locate a supplier in your area, just do a search on Berco. Good luck!
PS: Try this site for some good advice on old Cat iron ACMOC Bulletin Board - Powered by vBulletin
On the dozer you pictured the sprockets are worn out so it stands to reason the pins and bushings are bad also. The top/bottom rollers and front idlers need to be checked, they have the same amount of hours on them. I have had the chains skip on the sprockets when the dozer was under load but running the track off is a lot worse. The last undercarriage I rebuilt I had over $5,000 in parts and I did all the labor myself.
The owner started the machine but did he move it? If he didn't, why not? I would suspect the steering clutches are also needing parts and service or he did not want to throw a track. $5000 is not a bad price for the dozer if you understand you most likely will not be able to crawl on the machine and work it without doing some expensive parts and repairs. Hope your handy with a wrench, old dozers need a little tlc. You might want to check on the "Berco" brand for undercarriage parts, cheaper than OEM parts. You should be able to locate a supplier in your area, just do a search on Berco. Good luck!
PS: Try this site for some good advice on old Cat iron ACMOC Bulletin Board - Powered by vBulletin
Last edited:
MtnViewRanch
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BobG_in_VA said:
My 1943 D6 has never used more than 3 gallons per hour at full throttle in 3rd gear. 2 1/4 gallons per hour full throttle in 2nd gear. This is the fuel consumption I have while disking my property.
BobG_in_VA
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MtnViewRanch said:
Thanks for the reply. Geared units don't need the throttle like a hydro unit does. Thats one reason I asked if it was geared/clutch or what...I do know that a 955Cat track loader today (approx same HP as a D6) uses 11 gals/hr. Thats where my # came from....BobG in VA who would still buy the unit for that price.
RobJ
Elite Member
Eddie, you are right about the work area. I thought about that later in the day. a tree can help in making a crane, but another problem with a larger dozer. my biggest is the 350 class. men can still handle the track..sort of. And you can sometimes pullit around with a large tractor or 2.
the track will probably come off where you don't want it(or in a place you should have not ventured in the first place).
my toughest was going down the black top road (half on half off). it jumped but didn't come all the way off, sort of miss-meshed. Blocked the rear draw bar, lowered the blade all the way which lifted the dozer off the groundan inch or so...then used a sledge. about 10 minutes.
the track will probably come off where you don't want it(or in a place you should have not ventured in the first place).
my toughest was going down the black top road (half on half off). it jumped but didn't come all the way off, sort of miss-meshed. Blocked the rear draw bar, lowered the blade all the way which lifted the dozer off the groundan inch or so...then used a sledge. about 10 minutes.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
BobG_in_VA said:
Bob,
That sure sounds like allot of fuel.
My Case 1550 dozer is hydrostatic drive and I'm burning around 5 gallons an hour, maybe less. It has a Cummins turbo 8.3 engine rated at 169hp.
Eddie
DTCOOPER
Bronze Member
Howdy,
I ain't been on in a while..
Depending on where you are located in Texas (I am North of Greenville), I might buy it from you in a month or so when you're done with it !!
Thanks,
Daniel
I ain't been on in a while..
Depending on where you are located in Texas (I am North of Greenville), I might buy it from you in a month or so when you're done with it !!
Thanks,
Daniel
DTCOOPER said:
Sounds like a plan. Since my buddy has the tractor/trailer, I bet we could get it there cheap. I'm only about 100 miles from you. I'll send you a PM when I get close to being done.
He is the guy that has bee running this machine. He says he could have my place done in a week and a half on it. So I'm guessing it's gonna take me a month.
BobG_in_VA
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EddieWalker said:
I thought it sounded high myself, but I went and looked at a used one about 6 months ago. The owner told me thats what he was getting. Can't imagine he would tell me more than what it actually was unless he didn't really want to sell it....by the way, I didn't get it...BobG in VA
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