Burr cold, need warm cloths...

BobReeves · Oct 7, 2003

I could use some help and opinions from those that really live up north in the cold country.. I have to go to Vail Colorado the week before Thanksgiving to put a photo system on the top of a mountain in 10+ feet of snow. Now please realize I am 6 foot tall, weigh 145 pounds and have no built in insulation. I have also never understood why anyone would want to go someplace where it was cold and snowing on purpose /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The customer is supplying a Snow Cat so we can get up the mountain but I have no idea what I need to buy in the way of cloths so I can keep from freezing to death. Oklahoma winters are not that bad and I usually find ways to not be outside when it is below freezing, (to me freezing is more like anything below 50) so I basically have nothing in the way of cold weather gear.

Also with the recent purchase of our property I expect I will find myself outside plowing snow off the 90 foot driveway or having to fix something when it is really cold out. It would be nice if whatever I get for the Vail job could be used to keep me warm while working outside here at home.

Any suggestions or places to start shopping??

TIA
Bob

RoyJackson · Oct 7, 2003

First, layer your clothing!! That is, a t-shirt, sweat shirt and a parka are pretty good insulators.

Cover your head and ears!!! Most heat loss is through your head (no matter if you're bald or a full head of hair)

Good insulated gloves and socks!!
And, last but not least, good insulated boots.

Personally, I like LL Bean stuff. Tough and long wearing. Maybe Carhart or equivalent overalls.

As far as socks, have a few pair. Your feet will sweat under those boots.

NIXON · Oct 7, 2003

Roy makes some great points !! First , Keep your head warm !
Dress in layers . Also dress according to the amount of excertion you intend to do . ( are you going to be relatively static ? as on a machine ? Or, are You going to be engaged in something more physical while in the elements ? )
I work out doors all year long . When it turns cold , Bib overalls (carhart, Walls )Don't go with a one piece suit because there are times when you get warm, but don't need to remove the whole suit . Long underwear ( I find silk to work best on a long day ) and a good pair of boots ( I prefer rocky boots with 800 grams of insulation ) keep me going . Mind you , I'm not the last word in fashion . But , I can still do my job /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif As for gloves .. I generally don't wear them because I need to be able to use my fingers to find things in my nail pouch /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif But if You don't need to use your fingers for precise things gloves are a God send ! Just don't get real tight gloves . Find a set thats relatively loose and add a cheap set of liners . If it's going to be REALLY COLD>>> go with mittens . Just remember one thing that was told to me years ago ...... If your feet and hands are cold , Put on a warm hat . Somehow it works ! John

knucklehead · Oct 7, 2003

Bob, you have what we well insulated brothers call a high surface to body weight ratio. You're a natural radiator! You may want to look at Cabelas. Not to take anything away from Mother Bean, but Cabelas has a more extensive line of work clothing, while the big L is trending toward Eddie Bauer fashions (anyone remember when they were an outfitter?).

Good info here regarding layers. Most of the guys that work outside here at work use the Carhartt type canvas clothing products. They stand up better than ski type wear, although you are the best judge of the effort and activities you are going to be engaged in. You need to be able to vent if you steam up when working. I start the morning in layers and quickly end up stripped to a T shirt in windless Winter weather. Put something back on when you stop, before you get cold again. Try to keep below the perspiration point.

wasabi · Oct 8, 2003

Bob,

I'm about your size and I find as I get a bit older my extremeties feel the cold faster, so I pay attention to cold weather clothing. As others have said, layering is definately the answer. A decent outdoor store will have capaline sp? underwear. It comes in three weights, light, medium and expedition weight. Do not underestimate its warmth!...If you wear expedition weight when it is twenty degrees out, you will probably end up soaked with your own sweat. I find medium is about right for 20 degree weather. I wear a wool shirt and fleece over that or perhaps a vest (to allow better movement). If it is really cold an outer jacket.

Stocking hat is a must to prevent heat loss from your head. You might also look for one of those slip over the head neck thingies (don't remember what they are called.

Definately invest in some really good socks. I prefer a brand called smart wool. Avid outdoor friends swear by them. You might also pick up a pair of capaline or silk socks to wear underneath the smart wool. They will help wick away moisture from your feet.

I use the typical leather gloves you see at gas stations or home depot...but when the temps get really cold, I also wear polypropelene liners...get them at an outdoor or climbing shop.

When you have the right gear you can truely laugh at the cold.

Sabi

RobS · Oct 8, 2003

Hi Bob,

Lots of good ideas out here already. I used to be one of those who would intentionally go into a cold and snowy place just for the fun of it... Mountain Climbing!

You didn't mention how long you'd be out in the elements. Clothing for short periods of time will be quite different than that for long periods of exposure. No matter what though, water (sweat) will be your enemy. I always wore polypropylene long underwear to wick any sweat away. Cotton will stay wet until you get home. Definitely layer and keep your head warm. Remember to shed layers though if you get overheated so you don't sweat too much, also applies if you go back into a heated space.

Lotta good insulated boots out there, I like a polypro liner sock and a thick wool sock over that. Make sure the boots aren't too tight with that much sock.

Gloves are about the trickiest. If you don't need finger dexterity big mittens are best. I usually wore a pair of wool fingerless gloves with some heavy mittens over them. I could work with my hands when I needed to then cover them back up if they get cold. If you need to do a lot of work with your hands you might consider some of those chemical heat packs in your pockets to rewarm your hands when they get cold.

Sounds like a fun assignment, be sure to take some pictures /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Boondox · Oct 8, 2003

Bob -- I'm also a big fan of layers. If you are that tall and that thin, you probably have a high metabolic rate and will generate a lot of body heat when working, no matter how cold it gets.

When I first got married, my wife bought technical wear for a string of ski shops. So she was able to buy me the best cold weather garments below wholesale prices. She bought me an entire winter wardrobe...which I wore for about two hours. Man it got hot in all that stuff! So now I use that stuff only for chores where I have to sit still in cold for long periods of time (plowing snow, photographing wildlife, etc). For regular chores I use several layers of lightweight garments, and peel them off or add them depending on the level of work I'm doing. For dirty work where I don't want to risk my "good" clothing, I use Carhartt.

The only time I'm ever cold -- and we have winter temps as low as minus 30 here -- is in a cutting wind, or when I stupidly overdress and begin sweating under the clothing. Cold sweat is the worst!

No matter what, pay particular attention to keeping your feet warm (cold feet = sheer misery) and remember that most of your body heat will be lost through an uncovered head.

Fun assignment!

Pete

fivestring · Oct 8, 2003

Do not use any cotton products or denim, including underwear. They are absolutely useless as an insulator when wet and weigh a ton when they do get wet. They keep moisture trapped against your skin. That moisture will make you very cold and miserable. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Layer system:
First layer should be capilene (or equivalent) next to your body. This comes in 3 weights. This wicks moisture away into the next layer. NO COTTON.
The second layer should be a light, but insulating layer like polar fleece.
The third layer should be an insulator like a down jacket or sweater. Down is the best insulator there is. There is no man-made insulator as good as down. The drawback to down is that it is useless as an insulator when wet. This is why you use an outer layer.....
Outer layer should be Gore-tex (or equivalent) parka. It must shed water but allow perspiration to pass through. It must also cover your rear. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
A wool toboggan or a polypro balaclava for the head is a must. This is your body's thermostat. When you get warm, remove the headgear. When you get cold, put headgear back on.
Gore-tex insulated mittens are a must for your hands. If you need to use your fingers, get Gore-tex gloves. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
A wool or polar-fleece scarf is good for the neck and can be drawn around the face for additional wind and cold protection.

I have spent a lot of time backpacking in sub-zero weather and I've spent a lot of time skiing in sub-zero weather. Factor in wind chill and it can be C O L D!
Drink plenty of water and eat regularly.
Polarized sunglasses will be a must. The glare from the snow will give you headaches. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I would much rather be a little cold than hot. You can always add another layer when it gets cold. But you can only shed so many when it is hot. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Good luck and keep us posted.

Spencer · Oct 8, 2003

( I would much rather be a little cold than hot. You can always add another layer when it gets cold. But you can only shed so many when it is hot. )

My thoughts exactly!

dmccarty · Oct 8, 2003

Bob,

As other have said, its layers, Layers, and LAYERS. Layers do help you keep warm and if you warm up you can just peel off a layer of clothers...

When its cold I wear the following. From next to the skin on out.

- Silk long johns top and bottom.
- Ploypro lohns top and bottom.
- Wool pants. I actually have three different sizes of
pants so that I could wear two layers of pants. Two pair are
Swiss army suplus and are HEAVY. Another pair is light US
army surplus. I can wear the two Swiss pairs over each
other or the light US covered with the heavier pants.
- Heavy wool shirt.
- Heavy wools overcoats. I have a couple of these. The best
one is a "light" surplus Swiss coat. These have long sleaves
that can be use to tuck your hands insiide as well as tall
collars.

I always wear two pair of socks. Summer or winter its the
same. A light pair that wicks away moisture and heavy wool
socks.

Gloves and hats. I've got these as well. Mainly wool. Wool will
keep you warm when wet which down and cotton won't do. If
down or cotton get wet you are going to have a major problem.

If wool gets wet its just heavy and it might stink but you will
be at least somewhat warm... BTDT.

A good source is Cabellas or www.sportsmansguide.com. I got most of my wool at
Sportsmansguide. He is a good sales man and he sells lots of
junk but he has some good buys as well.

Later,
Dan

Boondox · Oct 8, 2003

Sunglasses! Great point! On sunny winter days if I forget mine my eyes feel all scratchy and my whole head aches.

Yes, don't forget the shades!

Pete

BobReeves · Oct 8, 2003

Boy, you guys are great.. Thanks for the info, now to do some shopping.

One item I already have thanks to my dear departed Mom is a Russian Cossack hat, great for keeping the ears warm even if I do look like Elmer Fudd.

dmccarty · Oct 8, 2003

Bob,

My heavy wool shirt looks JUST like Elmer's. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The hats I have are not going to put me on the Best Dressed List either but I am WARM! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Dan

Slamfire · Oct 9, 2003

If the temps get down around 0, you'll want something to breathe through, to keep your lungs from chilling. That's were items like the baclava come in. Some folks use a scarf to wrap around their nose and mouth.

hazmat · Oct 9, 2003

Dan,

You might want to give fleece a try to replace your smelly wool. It has better "performance" - weighs less for given insulation & dries faster. Be sure to look for the polypro based stuff (polartech) vs. the acrylic.

Other's have mentioned it, but haven't stressed it enough

NO COTTEN!!!!!!! Once wet it stays wet & you will be cold.

Another thing to consider, if your job is active, look for a shell with ventilation options - pit zips, or big pockets on the front that can be opened to facilitate moisture removal. GoreTex is great, but there is a time-constant associated with how fast moisture will pass thru it.

hazmat · Oct 9, 2003

Forgot to mention. A couple more sources for performance outerwear

REI

Eastern Mountain Sports

Egon · Oct 9, 2003

Fivestring:

I've had mixed feelings about goretex. If it's less than -15 centigrade I find that it can't evaporate sweat fast enough and there is a build up of ice on the inside. Its fine if you are not sweating. The vents and so forth do not work for me.

As an example: Crosscounry skiing at -35 centigrade my hands would get cold after an hour when wearing the heavy Gortex mitts with the heavy liners and long sealable cuffs with drawstrings and also fasteners that hold the mitt on to your arm when you take it off. These were $150.00 Canadian 10 years ago. Also got the same type of gloves. A pair of $15 thinsulate gloves worked very well and kept my hands warm.

When skiing/working in cold temperatures your clothing must wick persperation away from the body and to the outside. For me gortex doesn't work and my outside layer has wind resistant properties but will let moisture through easily.

But in my back pack reside a thinsulate insulated gortex jacket and the same type of pants. Also insulated gortex hat and mitts as well as a down vest. These are for emergency use or when stopped. Even carry all this on just a short day trip in warm weather.

That's my penny's worth. Everybody has given great advice.
Egon

fivestring · Oct 9, 2003

I've had moisture moments like that also.
That's where the pit zips come in handy. 90% of the time, my pit zips are wide open, no matter how cold. Even with those open, sometimes moisture can't get to the outside.
Hopefully, one day, someone will come up with the ultimate breathable/waterproof shell. I'll gladly plop down the cash.